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I also tend to agree that the cups, if properly maintained, are fine for bettas for the time they are in stores. Unfortunately, some stores severely overstock (more than they can sell in a week or two) and because they have so many, don't change the water and clean the cups. The Petsmart near my office almost always has 50 or 60 on the shelf, regardless of what day I happen to stop in (I think they get their fish in on Thursdays). And space is the key issue. Even if they put them in bowls (which would need a lid because bettas are jumpers), they would still take up too much room for it to be profitable. The cups are the only feasible way for pet/fish stores to sell them.

As for the petition, as GuppyDude mentioned, it's pretty much a wasted effort for 2 main reasons. First, it's a petition. No one ever pays any attention to them. Even if you were able to collect 10 million signatures, it would still be ignored by whatever government agency you presented it to. Second and probably most importantly, bettas are just fish. That's not my opinion but the opinion of most everyone that doesn't have a fish tank. Fish do not get the consideration of other animals. Do you think Michael Vick would be suspended from the NFL and facing jail time if his group had been fighting bettas? Possibly because of the gambling aspect but certainly not because they killed fish.
 
I don't agree with the cups at all, mainly because they are too small but also because it gives customers the wrong idea about what size tank/bowl they can be kept in. At my lfs, the Bettas are kept in decent sized tanks or in breeding nets. They did keep them in the small plastic Betta barracks but I explained to the manger that these were far too small, so they no longer use them.
When a customer comes in to buy a Betta, I always recommend keeping them in a 5G+.
Betta barracks would be more effective if they were larger. And you guys say you can't fight huge corporations? Think again. If we could get the word out on major television, like animal planet, BBC, the discovery channel, etc. Bettas could live large. I think betta barracks are a really good idea, just use a bigger size.
 
not signing it is everyone choice ofcourse but i bet you'd sign a petition if it was about puppy farm cruelty. I think that any living creature should be entitled to enough space to atleast excersise and maintain a good immune system>less diseases> happy LONG life

my shop will never house a betta in such crampped conditions EVER!!!!!(at present ive got tanks that are 12" x8"x8") and used for betta displays and 50L for the females, it does come down to space in the shop but the space should be divided up correctly to meet the different species and their needs, not the pocket. oh well thats what makes some of us different i suppose.

ANYWAY ive signed it. every little signature makes a better world slowly. WELL WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!!
 
not signing it is everyone choice ofcourse but i bet you'd sign a petition if it was about puppy farm cruelty. I think that any living creature should be entitled to enough space to atleast excersise and maintain a good immune system>less diseases> happy LONG life

my shop will never house a betta in such crampped conditions EVER!!!!!(at present ive got tanks that are 12" x8"x8") and used for betta displays and 50L for the females, it does come down to space in the shop but the space should be divided up correctly to meet the different species and their needs, not the pocket. oh well thats what makes some of us different i suppose.

ANYWAY ive signed it. every little signature makes a better world slowly. WELL WORTH THE EFFORT!!!!!

Agreed! (Also signed)
 
They should ban the cups besauce what if the bettas never got purchased then they would live in the plastic cups and have a dull, boring, cramped life.
 
In the uk, you go into a fish shop and the male bettas are kept in a tank with fish that they are not going to attack or vice versa. All females are kept together in the same tank. It seems incredibly cruel keeping them in tiny little pots. Plus if I didn't know anything about fish and went into a pet shop and saw one in a pot like that then i'd think that i can keep it like that at home!
 
Peronally, I don't sign petitions as they do not do any good. In this particular case, what are the plans for this one once it has X number of signatures on it? Who will it be sent to and what will be the process for following up to make sure it was received and that it will not end up in that person's rectangular file (garbage can for those that don't know what that is)? For a petition to even get any attention at the lawmaker or in this case, store owner level, there has to be enough of a public outcry besides the petition to pressure the powers-that-be to make a change. For fish, that isn't going to happen. As I mentioned before, to most people, it's just a fish.

Saying that seeing a betta in a small container leads you to believe that it can be kept that way permanently doesn't hold much water to me (pardon the pun). Does that also mean that you think that oscars in the fish store should all be in a large tank with fish that they are compatible with? What about juvie plecos? Should they be in a 55+ gallon tank as that is what they need in the home aquarium once they begin to grow? If that were the case, then no store would ever sell oscars or plecos as well as other species that require lots of space in the home aquarium as they wouldn't have enough space and if they did make the choice to keep them that way, the cost of buying one would be high as you would be the one paying for the space requirements to hold them that way. Oscars are kept with their on kind in a small tank as are lots of African cichlids and other large, aggressive fish because it is strictly a holding tank, not a permanent home, just as the cup for the bettas is.

If you go with the premise that bettas should be kept in larger containers because people seeing them in a cup will lead people to keep them that way at home, then keeping them in the stores in quart or half gallon, unfiltered, unheated bowls (to give them more room) doesn't help either as people will still think that is the way to keep them and that isn't the case either unless you are into frequent 100% water changes to keep the toxins down.

If people don't do the research or ask the questions to learn how a fish should be kept, then they are not going to be a very good keeper anyway and regardless of what they put the fish (regardless of species) in, it's not likely the fish will have a very long, happy and stress-free life.

Sorry to be so long but I just don't buy the arguements that are being tossed out.
 
rdd is right. I mean this is a good cause but for the local fish stores to buy bowls for all the bettas they would end up losing money than gaining it and even if some store takes in the petition there will be some one who always won't agree with any size tank.
 
You'd be surprised Rdd how many people come into the shop and assume that fish can be kept in small tanks, especially Bettas. I've lost count of the amount of people who have stocked their tanks inappropriately due to seeing big fish in small tanks. Unfortunately, when they've brought the fish they haven't asked and nor have they been told. We try to educate people all the time but it seems that Bettas are one of the few fish that people still believe are able to live in tiny containers.
 
Don't you think then, Cathy, that to some extent PetSmarts keeping Betta in such small containers may actually encourage or mislead aquarists toward keeping Betta in such small containers themselves?
No, people come in with the mindset that bettas like small containers because they live in puddles in their natural environment. Nobody that I've seen plans to keep them in that cup so they realize that isn't a permanent home. If the bettas had to be rebagged or bought in the fish department it would at least give me a chance to explain that those "puddles" are miles wide and that larger containers are less work. As it is the smallest containers are displayed right below the actual bettas in an endcap that is right by the registers to encourage impulse and uneducated purchases. I have to walk customers down another aisle to show them what I consider one of our more ideal 1 gallon habitats. If I told people they needed a 5 gallon tank they would just consider me crazy and grab whatever they had in mind when they walked in. I don't mind the betta in a cup thing because they are out of the store so fast and we take good care of them but the small containers that are displayed right underneath bother me. The largest one that is right underneath them is a 1/2 gallon bowl kit with no top to keep jumpers in. There is a sign saying that bettas like bamboo to get people to buy bamboo but no sign stating that bettas need dechlorinated water. Now most people think you should use bottled or "spring" water with bettas but a lot of people keep their bettas in tap water with no dechlorinator. The care guides are pretty close to the bettas but almost nobody grabs one without us pointing them out.

Personally, I think the endcaps with all the little tanks and no dechlorinator are more of a problem then the cups are. If people ask me about bettas they leave with a decent sized setup, good food, and dechlorinator. Maybe rather than demand that Petsmart and PetCo stop using cups you should instead petition to have a "display" habitat with all necessary equipment labeled and an explanation given be put in each store. Maybe also set up sign dispelling the betta myths like them liking small containers. I think that would be more effective and would educate customers. A nice crowntail zooming around in his tank having fun flaring at everybody might be an incentive to set up something like the display. And it wouldn't need a ton of space. A 1 gallon set-up like that Aquapals one would just need for the hermit crab bedding to be moved at my store anyway. A 2.5 gallon would also not take up much space. I know a 5 gallon would be better but I can't see PetSmart or PetCo doing that. A 1 or 2.5 gallon you might have a chance with. It would also boost sales of the better foods and dechlorinators. You could also add some live plants like bamboo to increase sales of them. I like this idea better, any thoughts on it being feasible and what the display tank should look like?
 
You'd be surprised Rdd how many people come into the shop and assume that fish can be kept in small tanks, especially Bettas. I've lost count of the amount of people who have stocked their tanks inappropriately due to seeing big fish in small tanks. Unfortunately, when they've brought the fish they haven't asked and nor have they been told. We try to educate people all the time but it seems that Bettas are one of the few fish that people still believe are able to live in tiny containers.
I think this can just be chalked up to customer LAZINESS. If you were going to get a dog you would(hopefully) research it's needs. I don't understand why people don't do that with fish too. I think some responcibility should rest with the customers.
 
I do agree that responsiblity lies with the customer but then a huge part of it is the shop responibility as they are selling them. I wouldn't expect to go to the local rspca centre and find a dog in a 2ft x 3ft cage.
 
I don't think it's altogether customer lazinees but bad advice from some shops. When people start out in fishkeeping they expect to get good and correct advice from their lfs but sadly, this isn't always the case.
I make sure that I give the best advice I can and if I'm not sure then I ask one of my colleagues for help. Before I worked at my lfs and when I was new to it all, I presumed that I would get all the help I needed from staff when it came to buying fish. It's only after doing plenty of research and keeping fish myself that I now realise what bad advice I have been given over time.
 
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