Is someone killing my Rummy Nose Tetras?

[danajs]

Since posting another 3 have died and were absolutely clueless They’ll be happily schooling one day, then seem to go pale and then die

 

[GaryE]

A rainbow shark would kill at night, so you wouldn't see the crimes being committed. Red tails and rainbows are one fish, one tank fish in my opinion. I would never have them in a community. I'd give the Synodontis the benefit of the doubt, and the angels are too small. I've has a couple of rummy nose species in with wild caught angels over the years, and there was zero predation.

Another posibility I'd suspect if you didn't have a 'shark' is simply how delicate rummy noses are.

 

[Colin_T]

They might be getting poisoned by something. Rummynose are sensitive to chemicals and this includes moisturisers, hand santiser, poor water quality, sudden changes in water chemistry (GH, KH & pH), and anything else that pollutes or contaminates the water.

Does anyone smoke, paint or use hair spray, perfume, deodorant or any other aerosol in the room with the tank?

Do you have buckets and hoses specifically for the fish?

When you fill the tank, you should add the dechlorinator before adding the tap water. If you have chlorine in the tap water, then treat the entire tank volume for a single dose. If you have chloramine in the tap water, you normally use a double dose. You can contact your water supply company to find out if they add chlorine or chloramine to the water.

Can you post pictures of the new angelfish so we can check them for disease?

How often do you clean the filters and how do you clean them?

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Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 25-30% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filters if they haven't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Monitor the fish and post pictures of any that die.

 

[itiwhetu]

Rummy noses are fussy, if your tank isn't heavily planted then they may just be dying of stress

 

[Naughts]

It looks like the tank is viewed from all sides, maybe between an open plan kitchen and dining area? There doesn't appear to be many plants.
Try adding floating plants for the fish to feel protected from (imagined but real to the fish) overhead predation; and a fast growing plant like eloeda densa, hornwort or jungle valisneria to spread and provide cover. This will also break up the line of sight until you can remove the big/more aggressive species of fish as discussed previously - for fish 'out of sight is out of mind' so that stress will reduce.

76 degrees is the coolest they should be at, if the tank sometimes drops below that you may need to turn up the heater.

The rummies do show some with pale noses which could be due to ill health, stress or just the time of day the photo was taken. Use the redness of the nose as a barometer of how well they are doing.

 

[danajs]

We came down yesterday morning to find that the Blue Phantom Pleco had died, which concerned us even more as Plecos are supposed to be quite hardy fish?

Tested the water parameters again yesterday morning and the only change was that the pH has increased from 5.0 to 6.5 in the space of about a week.

We took a sample of the water and the Blue Phantom’s body to our LFS. They tested the water and couldn’t see any real cause for concern, other than the fact the pH has changed in the space of a week. They also examined the Pleco and couldn’t see any obvious signs of disease or anything wrong with him - they said he was a perfect specimen! He was only around 2 inches big, so still a youngster! He took a look at the photos of the Rummies and said their gills perhaps look slightly inflamed. We also noticed a red spot on one of the Angels, so he has suggested perhaps there could be a bacterial infection in the tank.

He explained that the beneficial bacteria would had adapted to surviving at a pH of 5.0 and that a change in pH could cause some of that to die off, so we came away with an Aquarium Bomb to help with any sudden spikes in ammonia, etc.

Come down this morning and we find another dead Rummy, a dead Cory and the Sunshine Pleco also dead! Have tested the water again and the results are the same as yesterday, so no sudden swings there that we’re aware of.

We do have another (much smaller) tank that some of the fish could be moved to until we get this tank sorted, but if it is a bacterial infection we will only be spreading that.

Really stuck now, other than to try treating the tank for a bacterial infection.

 

[Naughts]

What are the test results in numbers?

 

[danajs]

They might be getting poisoned by something. Rummynose are sensitive to chemicals and this includes moisturisers, hand santiser, poor water quality, sudden changes in water chemistry (GH, KH & pH), and anything else that pollutes or contaminates the water.

Does anyone smoke, paint or use hair spray, perfume, deodorant or any other aerosol in the room with the tank?

Do you have buckets and hoses specifically for the fish?

When you fill the tank, you should add the dechlorinator before adding the tap water. If you have chlorine in the tap water, then treat the entire tank volume for a single dose. If you have chloramine in the tap water, you normally use a double dose. You can contact your water supply company to find out if they add chlorine or chloramine to the water.

Can you post pictures of the new angelfish so we can check them for disease?

How often do you clean the filters and how do you clean them?

---------------------
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 25-30% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filters if they haven't been done in the last 2 weeks. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Monitor the fish and post pictures of any that die.

Neither of us are smokers and I don’t put my hands into this tank, it’s all his - so no risk of moisturiser or perfume there! The only thing we do have in the room is a wax melt, but that is right next to my Bettas and they’re absolutely fine. This big tank is also enclosed.

We have specific buckets, jugs and hoses which are used for the fish only, nothing else.

I’ve asked him about how he treats the water and he said he doses dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank and then adds water back in, which he temperature matches as best he can.

Photo of one of the Angels posted in my other reply regarding what’s happened over the weekend. We disposed of the other loses before I logged on this morning, but I’ll grab some photos if anyone else dies.

 

[danajs]

What are the test results in numbers?

pH 6.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
KH 3
GH 5

pH was 5.0 last weekend, but everything else was as above.

 

[Naughts]

So no ammonia spike.
No chances of contamination/ poisoning.
No obvious symptoms so probably no aggressive disease?
I'm baffled to why you are losing lots of different species rapidly.

Maybe it's the pH swings? Are you adding anything that could cause this?
Has the maintenance routine fluctuated?

 

[Colin_T]

Do you cook any spicy foods or onions, etc, near the tank?
Or do you have an exhaust fan on?

Take the rocks out, gravel clean under the rocks and check for bodies and uneaten food.
Clean the filters.
Do 30% daily water changes for a week and see if it helps.
Increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

 

[danajs]

So no ammonia spike.
No chances of contamination/ poisoning.
No obvious symptoms so probably no aggressive disease?
I'm baffled to why you are losing lots of different species rapidly.

Maybe it's the pH swings? Are you adding anything that could cause this?
Has the maintenance routine fluctuated?

I did suspect the Rainbow Shark of picking off the Rummies, but as

So no ammonia spike.
No chances of contamination/ poisoning.
No obvious symptoms so probably no aggressive disease?
I'm baffled to why you are losing lots of different species rapidly.

Maybe it's the pH swings? Are you adding anything that could cause this?
Has the maintenance routine fluctuated?

No spike that we’re aware of. I did wonder if it was the Rainbow Shark picking off the Rummies, but as we sit and watch the tank there is absolutely no aggression! Sharky is always busy doing his own little thing.

We’re not sure what has caused the pH to swing. The only thing he adds to the tank is API Leaf Zone and API CO2 Booster. I use the same CO2 Booster with my Bettas and I’ve never had an issue with it.

 

[danajs]

Do you cook any spicy foods or onions, etc, near the tank?
Or do you have an exhaust fan on?

Take the rocks out, gravel clean under the rocks and check for bodies and uneaten food.
Clean the filters.
Do 30% daily water changes for a week and see if it helps.
Increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

The tank is between the kitchen and lounge/diner. We do cook with onion, but we always have the extractor fan on when cooking. Rarely use any spices.

We’ve spoken to our LFS again today and they have suggested a treatment (I can’t remember it’s name) that is an anti-bacterial that can be quite harsh. He was a little concerned it’s gone from just the Rummies to now the Corys and Plecos. He also advised in the nicest way possible it’s most likely going to be a case of we’re going to lose who we’re going to lose But keep on top of maintenance, etc.

 

[Colin_T]

stop adding fertiliser for a bit, and that includes the co2 booster

do daily water changes and gravel cleans to remove any excess nutrients

-------------------
Don't add medications, especially anti-biotics, unless you know what the problem is. The fish show no signs of a bacterial infection but the rummynose are acting like they have been poisoned.

At this stage remove all chemicals from the tank except dechlorinator. Clean the tank and do small daily water changes and gravel cleans. Clean the filter too and maybe add some carbon to the filter for a week.

 

[Naughts]

I did suspect the Rainbow Shark of picking off the Rummies, but as

No spike that we’re aware of. I did wonder if it was the Rainbow Shark picking off the Rummies, but as we sit and watch the tank there is absolutely no aggression! Sharky is always busy doing his own little thing.

We’re not sure what has caused the pH to swing. The only thing he adds to the tank is API Leaf Zone and API CO2 Booster. I use the same CO2 Booster with my Bettas and I’ve never had an issue with it.

Liquid CO2 is gluteraldehyde. I don't recommend it.

Glutaraldehyde - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org