Is It Right

[diademhill]

I had to vote maybe/depends.
IMO these fish should only be sold by stores that also supply suitable aquaria and that have full grown specimens on display ( or at least similar species as examples )
I don't think pangasius species, arapaima, alligator gars, pacus etc should be available to aquarists and things like RTC and giant gouramis shouldn't be stocked unless to special order.
A bigger problem is the sale of mid sized fish - to me that is the 1-1.5 foot species like Oscars, clown loaches & bala sharks - that frequently get sold for tiny tanks.

Sue

 

[Dragonscales]

I voted maybe/depends.

Personally I think that if they are housing the fish within an acceptable tank before purchase and are advising any potential customer correctly in the fish's requirements then there isn't a problem. If on the other hand, they are shoving 8-10 specimens in a grossly undersized tank before assuring their customers that "sure, this fella here won't get much longer than the 6 inches it is now and will be fine in a 29 Gal" then that is a different matter.

As far as whether or not the lfs actually stocks big enough tanks for the adult size of these fish to sell to the public or not, I really don't think this is a big problem as generally I am sure there is always an lfs somewhere nearby that would stock larger tanks. Unfortunately in my case it a a couple of hours drive in two different directions before a couple of hours to get back home. Well worth it if I was looking into keeping an arro one day though and is something I would do without hesitation as I am sure most responsible fishkeepers would. This is why having the lfs be more honest and truthful with a potential customer is alot more important than the tank sizes it stocks to the public imo. By that I do mean only the tanks it sells though, if they have a fully grown arro then it should be housed adequately (in a display tank for instance, which can further enforce the notion of how big the fish grows if a customer were not to believe them) regardless of if they stock that sized tank or not.

Unfortunately, alot of lfs don't do this and alot of customers are just thickheaded even when told the truth. The most a person (non lfs working person that is) can do is try to reason with the store/customer in question and hope reasoning wins the day, usually it is an uphill battle though and winds up being a lost cause in 99% of cases, but that 1% success rate is enough to keep trying imo.

 

[Nevergone815]

TRUE STORY- PLEASE READ

yea i once saw a woman come in and want to buy a bunch of goldfish to put into a 10 or 20 gal (forgot which one as i was listening from a distance and they were talking about 2 tanks). but the person in the lfs told the woman that her tank was already overstocked and that the fish won't be suitable for the conditions. they even showed he person a "larger" and not full grown version and the customer shrugged it off. the employee then said you should only have at MINIMUM (and they emphasised that) 1 goldfish per 10 gals and 1 per every 5 after that. and the employess said still that is very inadequate for them. well the woman just said "i've been keeping fish longer than you have been around and i think i know what i'm doing. i'm a regular and if you don't sell me thess fish i'll go see the owner-i know her and you'll be fired!" and she was yelling at this kid. so reluctantly to save his job (he was a college kid home for break and was using that year after year to pay for college during breaks- i know this because i started talking to him about school), he did it. well the woman gave him an attitude at check out and said "don't think the owner isn't going to hear about this!" i just laughed it off with him to bring him up. he was legitamately scared for his job for trying to do what was best for the fish, but people sometimes just don't care. i wound up not getting anything that day but i saw him in there like a month later so obviously either a) the owner liked that he was looking out for the store's credibility and the fish or B) the woman never said anything to the owner or even didn't even know the owner

sad to say it i bet most of those fish either died or got really sick.

its sad how some people are just so thick that they don't listen to reason!

 

[atmmachine816]

Well they don't sell large enough tanks to house a silver aro in any lfs that I know of by here, don't say anything about how big it is and have each of them in about a 10 gallon tank. This lfs is starting to make me not want to buy anything there more and more since they seem to sell fish that I personally think should only be there for special order not to just be stocked. I live in a city with about 40,000-45,000 people and I can't believe that there is enought people to be able to constantly buying common plecos, red-bellied pirhanas, bala sharks, iridescent sharks, and some larger plecos than common's sometimes, and they always have some of these in stock and I have been going there for 6 continuous months now and they ALWAYS have those in and now they have aros and gars and they just got a 125 gallon tank a month ago and it hasn't been sold yet. I am thinking that they are not an lfs to be supporting. I wouldn't worry about it if they periodically got them in stock but they always have them and now they have even bigger fish in stock, and I have never heard them say anything to people who are looking at buying them.

Austin

 

[Nevergone815]

now in that situation i would stop supporting that lfs. it scares me that they have that many large fish and they are getting bigger. the only thing that i can think of is that they know people with multi-thousand gal tanks otherwise i can't see how they can sell all of those fish and people have room for them.

 

[atmmachine816]

Exactly what I say, how can they constantly be selling that many large fish and I konw they do or they kill themvc since I see them getting new shipments in sometimes. I don't think I will support them anymore since they won't listen to me either.

 

[Nevergone815]

places like that just add the the fear of fishkeeping and the overrunning of "is my fish sick" or "why is my fish dieing" questions on forums. not everybody thinks to educate themselves first via the internet. so they rely on the lfs. and if they have these fish and don't tell people what they require, it just adds to the sick/dead/unhappy fish.

it makes you want to cry. did you read my story on here that i posted? things like that and poor info provided are the reasons that fishkeeping is really more difficult than it should be. i wasn't told anything by my lfs when i got into fishkeeping and had like the plague hit my tank. i had to spend $200 US on meds to treat the tank, because as i got rid of one infection another one came that i wasn't treating for and so on. now i treat for a number of things via Maracyn and Meracyn Two and other products likewise. no to poor advice result in a lot of problems.

my lfs constantly supplies large fish and ALWAYS have giant guoramies in stock. well i did research on these guys... they grow HUGE! but the biggest tanks they sell on average are 20 US gal. they now have a 75 US gal setup for sale, but in the area (college students) we can't have tanks that big or can't afford them. so why carry it or the fish that fit in it. and they are constantly running out of them and getting another shipment in. whats the deal?

i feel that specialized stores who ask questions to about fish housings should be the ones and ONLY ones to carry such fish. and btw i want to get an oscar or even a couple but i now they grow HUGE also. so i won't buy them yet as i don't have room or proper housing for them. but they get these weekly as well and sell out.

i wonder what people have in their tiny tanks around here or what size tanks they have to house them all???

 

[kubora666]

there is a very good LFS near me and it specialises in a massive isle ( big as a supermarket isle ) of rift lake african cichlids, then american cichlids, then an isle of oddball fish! they are very good at their jobs and the amount of times i went in there looking for something for my 30 gal tank they always said, no that will get to big, i cant sell it to you, but we have something similar..... etc. they know what they are on about and they think best for the fish.
i also know lfs that arent like that, this saturday coming i am begining a saturday job at a close to my home lfs and i know already that my job will be to deal with customers and sell the fish, i am going to do this job well and for the fishes sake

 

[atmmachine816]

Exactly what I say, they have large tanks but they don't sell them since they are so expensive. I may only support them still so when I'm old enough I can work there and tell all the customers what fish they should get and not get for there tanks. When I started those lfs people said I would be ok with 6 full grown angels 3 full grown cories and 30 guppies in a 29 gallon tank since my grandpa had that in a 29 minus the guppies and he was fine since he changed the water a lot and had bought them as babies so it was fine. They said I maybe should get rid of 2 angels. Well I didn't and I had a smelly tank for a long time. I finally got it figured out and now have my tank almost under control almost a year later. I'm still working on an algae eater and test kit but besides that I finally have my tank more under control. I have made a lot of bad choices due to lfs's and not coming here until 3 months ago. Ever since I have come here I have learned so much and now know not to trust lfs's advice.

Austin

 

[prankster705]

True story - My classmate was distinguished because the woman at the store told her that her tank is to small for those fish she wants to buy, (around 10 liters - no filter) had I think 2 male swordtails - overstocked. And I told her the seller was right and than she told me I'm stupid... So the buyers are spmetimes to blame tho - not just the sellers.
Just a thought.

 

[Nevergone815]

True story - My classmate was distinguished because the woman at the store told her that her tank is to small for those fish she wants to buy, (around 10 liters - no filter) had I think 2 male swordtails - overstocked. And I told her the seller was right and than she told me I'm stupid... So the buyers are spmetimes to blame tho - not just the sellers.
Just a thought.

yea like i said in my story, the customer insisted on it while the employee only sold her the fish to protect his job.

 

[Katana]

Heh, when I first got into fish, I was really little, like 6 or so. We got a 20 gal, filled it with smallish fish, and put a common pleco in there to eat the algae. The tiny pleco got HUGE. He was allways my favourite fish. Luckily, before he outgrew his tank entirely, we moved to a new house...with outdoor ponds (we're in florida, so the pond stays warm). We got a few goldfish for the pond, and put my pleco in there. The thing was happy as a clam. Allways plenty of algae, which has allways plagued that darned pond. It lived in there happily for several years, got about 20 inches long, then got caught in the filter . We got lucky that we had the pond, because otherwise, he would have gotten WAY too big.

 

[Tolak]

If you want to find out the real deal on that shop, find a friend they've never seen who is willing to go in there & act interested in an aro or gar. An imaginary 40 gallon breeder sound like a totally unsuitable, but large enough looking tank to the less educated aquarist. If they are willing to sell the fish, they are interested in money, if they refuse to sell the fish, they care about fish.

Is it right for them to have those fish for sale, or to sell them to someone with a smaller tank? Sure it is, it's a free country, they can run a business however they like, as long as it's within the law. Probably won't get them a good reputation in the area though. I'll bet there's thinkgs you or I do that they see as being just as wrong.

 

[Nevergone815]

If you want to find out the real deal on that shop, find a friend they've never seen who is willing to go in there & act interested in an aro or gar. An imaginary 40 gallon breeder sound like a totally unsuitable, but large enough looking tank to the less educated aquarist. If they are willing to sell the fish, they are interested in money, if they refuse to sell the fish, they care about fish.

Is it right for them to have those fish for sale, or to sell them to someone with a smaller tank? Sure it is, it's a free country, they can run a business however they like, as long as it's within the law. Probably won't get them a good reputation in the area though. I'll bet there's thinkgs you or I do that they see as being just as wrong.

i agree with both parts of this.

1st- use a decoy to find out info. like Tolak said, if they sell the fish (or at least are willing to) then you know that they look at the $$$ signs and not the fish.

2nd- the business technically has the right to do this (i feel that it is wrong) but like Tolak said, they aren't technically breaking laws. they will just fight lawsuits and such by saying, "they should've researched them first". you got to love the capitalist system

 

[Dragonscales]

I'll bet there's thinkgs you or I do that they see as being just as wrong.

Like regular water changes, understocking, only keeping suitable tankmates, stocking fish together that actually have the same water requirements, etc, etc, etc - the list goes on...and on...and on...