Is It Me, Or Them?

[CEB]

Right, I'm reassured. Read the cycling part. Nothing new to me there, but a good refresher.

Read the weekly tank maintenance part. The first para states 'deadly nitrates'. Pedantic maybe, but nitrites are more deadly, and nitrates are okay in small qualtities (and beneficial to plants); am I right?

Weekly is the main problem. There's no way I can do weekly. It takes three to four hours (mind you, I don't rush). Some have said that I shouldn't have a tank if I can't do weekly maintenance. Well, too late for that, unless I flush the fish. If all indicators (water quality) are within acceptable ranges, why does it need to be so frequent. Mind you, I have six small fish in a 275L tank, so it's hardly overstocked.

Back in the olden days, there was regular maintenance chart that was based on weekly checks on water and removing dead plants, and three-weekly water changes. I'll try to dig that out for it's historic value.

Anyway, now to my cleaning. As I go, I'll write out what I do and post it later. I don't think anything will be a suprise to anyone.

 

[CEB]

Real quick off-topic for this thread...

What do you use to clean the glass cover for your tanks? I get a lot of water deposits on them which are hard to get off without chemicals. I have used vinigar, but I can't get it all off (or at least the smell), and I'm worried that it will get wet and drip back into the tank.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Right, I'm reassured. Read the cycling part. Nothing new to me there, but a good refresher.

well reassurance is as valuable as anything else so glad that helped in some way!!

Read the weekly tank maintenance part. The first para states 'deadly nitrates'. Pedantic maybe, but nitrites are more deadly, and nitrates are okay in small qualtities (and beneficial to plants); am I right?

you are correct, nitrates are alright in small quantities, there's actually a lot of debate over what level of nitrate is acceptable, but as a general rule you should aim to keep it as low as you can.

Weekly is the main problem. There's no way I can do weekly. It takes three to four hours (mind you, I don't rush). Some have said that I shouldn't have a tank if I can't do weekly maintenance. Well, too late for that, unless I flush the fish. If all indicators (water quality) are within acceptable ranges, why does it need to be so frequent. Mind you, I have six small fish in a 275L tank, so it's hardly overstocked.

three to four hours!! well i take my time with weekly water changes but they take maybe an hour tops...... will wait to see what you're doing before commenting further but perhaps you can find some sort of compromise like do an hrs maintenance once a week then give it a thorough clean once a month.... something like that.

As you have quite correctly interpreted the amount of fish in the tank will directly influence how often you need to do maintenance and the important thing is to keep within acceptable levels. If you stock and filter appropriately then you can make the maintenance routine fortnightly or every 3 weeks. The guide in the link is really aimed at an average community tank stocked reasonably heavily, filtered averagely. There's always variables in these things but it's just a general idea of what most experienced fishkeepers will do on a weekly basis.

There are other things to consider than just the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels though, things like too much waste/dead plants/uneaten food on the floor of the tank can cause health problems for any bottom dwelling fish. also there are minerals in tap water which the fish absorb, after a while they will have absorbed all the minerals and can have health problems if the water isn't refreshed. Likewise there are other things that we don't test for, if for example you have an air freshner in the same room as the tank small amounts of the liquid will accumulate in the tank, initially it won't be a problem, over time the pollutants can build up and you'd need to do water changes to remove them. So there are other reasons for water changes than purely nitrate reduction, but all these things can be satisfied with bi-weekly changes if the other levels hold steady over this period.

 

[Ian H]

I only do a water change every 2 weeks and my tank is fine so dont feel like you have to get rid just because you can't do it every week. I think thats mostly for people with small tanks. As for taking 4 hours what the hell are you doing!?!? emptying the water out then collecting it from a lake!? not sure if you are us or uk but either way this link will be helpful:

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...-Water-Changes/

When was the last time you changed your light tubes? even though they seem fine (as in working) they need to be changed every 6 - 8 months for good plant growth. How many watts have you got all together?

the drop in ph could/would be down to the co2 your putting in along with the wood.

For some plants that WILL live in your tank have a look for some java moss and java fern. Its almost impossible for them not to grow

If your in the uk send me a pm and i can send you some of both if you want

 

[CEB]

Wow, thanks. Will reply more fully later.

3-4 hours. What am I doing? Surfing this board of course lol. I like to take my time, get distracted (food, coffee, internet). I enjoy doing it becuase it's not often I get to concentrate (sort of) on one thing for so long. Going back to that now.

 

[CEB]

Right, I finally finished. Only kidding. Wife and baby arrived home before I could finish so I had to come back to it.

Minerals for the fish from water changes; I hadn't thought about that. Good point, and that alone is a good reason for more frequent water changes.

To answer the outstanding questions....

Correction: the tank is only five years old. I found the instruction manuals and guarantees for the equipment, and I had put the date I bought it on the documents.

Maintenance routine:
Remove algae from glass, plants and fittings
Remove dead plant
Siphon gravel and remove 50-60L
Replace water, after treating with pH down and Aquasafe. I replace water slowly, about 6L at a time, waiting a few minutes between lots while I carry out other maintenance.
Remove Fluval canister filter, rinse one or both of the sponges in tank water, clean the canister, replace the sponges and put it back in the tank. Sometimes I leave both sponges in there, sometimes I replace one sponge. Occasionally I add an activated carbon sponge or a poly filter (for fine particulate).
Take out anything that needs a good clean (ie Java Fern where the roots collect detritus). Clean and replace.
Replant and/or reorganise tank decoration.
Clean top glass and replace.
This takes a minimum of 2.5 hours, but as I've said, I get distracted easily.

Medication:
I have always been a fan of Interpet General Tonic and Floraboost. I dose the General Tonic if any fish look a little off-colour with no diagnosable illness, and when adding new fish. I dose the Floraboost when I'm working hard to keep plants alive. I was reading the General Tonic label the other day (to see how dangerous it is if baby can get at it and get the lid off. It contains formaldehyde!

Fequency:
Planned, 3 weekly. Often 4 weekly. Sometimes longer. It's no excuse, but during the week I'm either working or looking after baby. At weekends, we're often out one or both days. Sometimes we have to check our diaries for the next free weekend, and agree not to accept any invitations for that weekend, just so we can catch up on chores.

Tank equipment:
Tank: 119.7 x 43.6 x 57cm, max vol 297L
Lighting: Two 42 inch Arcadia lamps; one ‘Original Freshwater Lamp’ at the rear of the hood, and one ‘Original Tropical Lamp’ at the front of the hood. Oddly, they don’t have the wattage specified (they’re a standard wattage for that size), but I think they’re 35-37 watts each. Both on timers with 12 hours light per day.
Fitration:
Undergravel filter, powered by two uplifts, each fitted with an Interpet Powerhead PH3 moving 600L/h (each)
Fluval 2+ Canister filter (used for removing waterborne debris)
Heater/thermostat – from memory, it’s 300W

One tip I have is this. I have a Fluval 2+. The sponges are about £4 for four (very espensive for a piece of sponge). Instead, I buy Fluval 3+ sponges for £5. These are for the next size up, but when cut in half they’re just a little bit shorter that the Fluval 2+ size.

Finally, Ian, thanks for the offer of the plant. I don't know the difference between moss and fern, but I have some of one or the other already. It looks a bit sad, but today I've taken it off the bogwood (going to leave that out of the tank for a while) and attached it to some rocks. If it doesn't perk up, I might take you up on that offer thanks. Of course, I pay for it if you want (or at least the P&P if you don't want).

Right, I think that's everything covered. Better tidy up now and go to bed. Got to be up in 5 1/2 hours. Zzzz

One last thing though... Thanks very much for all your help.

 

[Ian H]

just cover the P&P and i'll be happy

 

[CEB]

Thanks. What a guy! I assume they're cuttings surplus to requirements.

Anyway, as I turn off the lights, I notice that one of my carefully planted pieces of plant is now bobbing up and down along the gravel in the current. Need more lead. Does it never end?

 

[Ian H]

the moss could do with a cut as it grows at a decent rate and im sure i can spare some java fern! also have PLENTY of cobomba if you want some of that too? I'll pack it all up and pm you when i find out how much it'll cost to send

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well there's no accounting for distractions so I'm afraid not a whole lot we can do about that!

Roughly how often are you changing the filter sponges, this could be a problem. I know that the filter manufacturers will tell you to replace them every 6 weeks or so, it's basically rubbish to get you to keep buying their products every few weeks. The filter bacteria live on the sponges, if you throw out half the sponges every month or so then you're throwing out half the beneficial bacteria. I appreciate that you're saying the main filtration is done by the UG filter, but in all reality the bacteria don't know where you think they're supposed to be, they'll settle in the most appropriate place for them, filter sponges in an internal filter are a much better home than in a UG filter so weather you like it or not the internal will be doing the majority of the cleaning.

Have you noticed any correlation between cleaning and new fish dying? It could be that you are getting a mini cycle after doing your clean and this is killing off the new fish or weakening them so that they die off shortly afterwards. The problem with mini cycle's is sometimes you can miss them even with regular testing, if they only take 1-2 days tops it's long enough to kill or injure a fish but easily missed if you test weekly or something like that.

When you did your big clean yesterday, did you replace any sponges? If so can you take test readings ASAP which will help to confirm/deny this theory?

Now onto all the products you're putting in, scrap the pH down, these products just lead to pH instability and it's much better to have a stable pH a few points higher than your fish's preference than to have a fluctuating pH.

OOOOOOOOH I've just had a Eureka moment....... have a good look at the pH down bottle.... does it say anything about plants..... I seem to remember that these products are not designed for use in planted tanks as they basically kill off your plants. So this could well be the cause of the plant problems.

The general tonic (I'm afraid to say) is also rubbish. Just like with human's you should never treat a fish without a confirmed diagnosis, treating with the wrong medication can cause massive problems. These general tonics basically contain a mild version of medications, treating with these will just mean fish build up an immunity to them so you may have problems treating subsequent diseases.

A good tip for speeding up maintenance and making it easier for you is to use a hose pipe for your water changes. Basically put one end of the hose pipe down the sink/loo/out the front door (remember water from the fish tank contains lots of lovely nitrate which your garden/houseplants will love, good for the environment to re-use it as well) then put the other end of the hose pipe in the tank by the filter output so that the filter is pushing water down the hose pipe. After a min or so it'll start siphoning, you can then move the tank end of the pipe away from the filter and just wedge it somewhere in the tank so it'll stay put. Then you are free to tinker with the tank, do your planting, look after baby, watch the tv etc etc etc while it drains the water for you. When you've taken out one third of the water take the end that's in the tank out of the water, hold it out of the water for a minute or so to let all the water run through it, then put it back into the tank. Add dechlorinator straight to the tank, plug the other end of the hose onto your tap and switch it on. Because you've got a tap the flow rate is adjustable so you can set it running nice and slowly, again you're then free to do other maintenance, play with baby, post on forums etc etc while it fills up, just got to keep half an eye on the level and take it out when it's done.

I find this makes water changes about a zillion times easier, when I get home from work I potter around tidying up bits and bobs, put some washing on and start making dinner, when it's water change night I just start it running when I get in, do all my normal after work jobs and by the time teas nearly ready the water change is done. Because the hose pipe is doing all the work i don't loose more than 5/10 mins on my normal routine.

Give it a go sometime, see if you can fit it in around things then maybe you can find some compromise like you do your main monthly clean in the usual way, but in between cleans you fit in 1/2 water changes in this method, so without all the other cleaning and maintenance, literally just take some water out and put some new in.

 

[Amunet]

A plant you could try is hornwort.
I got some about a month ago, and it's insane how quickly this stuff grows.
Have you tried any kind of sword plants? They're usually pretty hardy.

As Miss Wiggle said... stop using that pH adjusting stuff. If your pH stays at a good steady/stable reading, then your fish will adjust to it just fine. Fluctuating pH can kill fish in a flash.

 

[dthoffsett]

Just thought I'd add (and please correct me if I'm wrong), I'm pretty sure your plants would grow much better without the undergravel filter.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Just thought I'd add (and please correct me if I'm wrong), I'm pretty sure your plants would grow much better without the undergravel filter.

yes, i too had reservations about how well plants grow in a tank using a UG filter, but I'm not really sure one way or the other if it affects them so thought I'd leave it and see if one of the plant enthusiasts said anything about it!

 

[Ian H]

Didnt realise he had an undergravel filter