Is Dan Blowing Smoke?

[gwand]

Dan’s Fish outlet is one of the premier, well respected fish stores in the USA. Dan has shipped me exquisite fish on numerous occasions. However he has the following posted on his website:

“Our pH measures around 8.3 with a KH and GH a bit over 300ppm. That being said, we want to caution folks with different water parameters from thinking that they need to change their water for our fish. We have many customers in the Pacific Northwest, Upstate New York, and other areas that have very soft water. Our fish do just fine in their water without any parameter matching. What is most important is that the water our fish are put in upon arrival have steady parameters, not that your water parameters match ours.”

If Dan turns over his soft water livestock very rapidly I assume the soft water fish being shipped to homes with soft water should do just fine. However I doubt that his or any shippers hard water fish will thrive in a home with soft water.

Get real, Dan.

 

[MaloK]

If the water is really a bit over GH 300 ppm and KH 300 ppm then...

There's no wonder why the soft water fishes thrives once you get them out of there....

 

[sharkweek178]

I live in a soft water area. Every fish store in the area sells guppies, mollies and other hard water fish. They don't care.

 

[jaylach]

Since Dan's draws his water from a creek that runs behind my apartments I DO know that it is liquid rock.

 

[Jinx_]

I live in a soft water area. Every fish store in the area sells guppies, mollies and other hard water fish. They don't care.

Money

 

[Magnum Man]

when I 1st started buying from him, I read or was told, he has a water treatment system, before he puts the water back to the creek, it wouldn't surprise me, if it's also not treated before it goes in his tanks

 

[jaylach]

when I 1st started buying from him, I read or was told, he has a water treatment system, before he puts the water back to the creek, it wouldn't surprise me, if it's also not treated before it goes in his tanks

Yes, it is heavily treated before getting to the tanks but not for GH or KH. Huge canister filters for sediment and goes through Ultra Violet treatments.

Here is a quick video of the system.

 

[anewbie]

Since Dan's draws his water from a creek that runs behind my apartments I DO know that it is liquid rock.

Dan is stealing your water !

 

[jaylach]

Dan is stealing your water !

HUH? Can't say that I understands that as all water Dan gets he gives back in better condition. Actually the creek is part of a nature reserve but he was given permission to use due to his water treatment.

 

[MuddyWaters]

when I 1st started buying from him, I read or was told, he has a water treatment system, before he puts the water back to the creek, it wouldn't surprise me, if it's also not treated before it goes in his tanks

he came and talked at our club. They treat the water as it comes in, and treat it again before they put it back. They don't change the PH, though. I buy everything I can from them. It's expensive and I hate paying shipping, but they are the absolute best cared for fish - I have rummynose tetras I got from Dan's and some I got locally- you can easily tell the difference. The ones bought locally are very stunted compared to Dan's - his are big and beautiful- you can tell they were well cared for as fry.

 

[jaylach]

he came and talked at our club. They treat the water as it comes in, and treat it again before they put it back. They don't change the PH, though. I buy everything I can from them. It's expensive and I hate paying shipping, but they are the absolute best cared for fish - I have rummynose tetras I got from Dan's and some I got locally- you can easily tell the difference. The ones bought locally are very stunted compared to Dan's - his are big and beautiful- you can tell they were well cared for as fry.

Yes you can be assured that any fish he ships is healthy. He even has a marine biologist under contract that I assume is from a local college. This person takes a fish from each incoming shipment bag and euthanizes and then autopsies to check for fin/scale issues along with organ degeneration and parasites.

I am fortunate in that Dan's warehouse is right next to my apartments so I just walk over to pick up fish without having to pay any shipping. Only other real option in Sheridan is a local Petco and I would pay shipping before I would buy anything live, except some foods, from Petco since a contaminated moss ball killed my entire take a while back.

 

[GaryE]

If I bring fish in to hard water, most will thrive for the short period I have them before I sell them. Kidney failure is a longish term process in most cases. I can't buy from this seller, but his bread and butter seems to be softwater, rainforest fish.

I think he assumes basic intelligence. He is more expensive and offers rarer fish, and that cuts out most new aquarists who don't know how to research water needs, then manage them. It's fair of him to assume he's dealing with smart and informed people. If you're going to spend to his prices, you probably make an extra effort to care for your fish because you are making an extra effort to pay for quality care.

I read a guy trying to stop people from playing with alkaline and acid pH up and down products, a great source of death and disaster in the fish world. Buy his fish, which he temporarily holds in water I'd hate to have, and keep them in your water. I just looked at his list and he has mostly softwater fish but keeps them in hard water. So you get them back to soft water.

If for some reason I lived in the US, I would order from him, Wet Spot and Reheboth Aquatics, although Dan's carries fewer of the fish I really like. He's a good source, and the one time I had fish from him, they were difficult softwater species that adjusted rapidly to my soft water.

From my perspective, he's saying he has hard water, and don't be scared off by that if you have better water for your fish. He's saying the stock he has will adjust.

 

[anewbie]

If I bring fish in to hard water, most will thrive for the short period I have them before I sell them. Kidney failure is a longish term process in most cases. I can't buy from this seller, but his bread and butter seems to be softwater, rainforest fish.

I think he assumes basic intelligence. He is more expensive and offers rarer fish, and that cuts out most new aquarists who don't know how to research water needs, then manage them. It's fair of him to assume he's dealing with smart and informed people. If you're going to spend to his prices, you probably make an extra effort to care for your fish because you are making an extra effort to pay for quality care.

I read a guy trying to stop people from playing with alkaline and acid pH up and down products, a great source of death and disaster in the fish world. Buy his fish, which he temporarily holds in water I'd hate to have, and keep them in your water. I just looked at his list and he has mostly softwater fish but keeps them in hard water. So you get them back to soft water.

If for some reason I lived in the US, I would order from him, Wet Spot and Reheboth Aquatics, although Dan's carries fewer of the fish I really like. He's a good source, and the one time I had fish from him, they were difficult softwater species that adjusted rapidly to my soft water.

From my perspective, he's saying he has hard water, and don't be scared off by that if you have better water for your fish. He's saying the stock he has will adjust.

Still for the amount he charges he could setup a large distiller and use distill water rather than hard water. While the base install of the distiller would cost a bit and there is the energy cost there would the savings of the consumable to filter the water et all.

While i'm not overly concern about the kidney there are issues around bacteria and fish immune system esp for wild caught fishes. Last but least i find his prices for certain stock which imho is generally unhealthy to begin with (i won't go into detail but the source of some of his 'tank raised' fishes have a strong reputation of inferior stock and my personal experience have been they live 1/2 the life span of wc stock) rather disgusting. I have had good luck with domestic tank raise fishes that wetspot sells though i prefer wc stock. wetspot is not perfect and i did pick up one diseased fish or rather my aquarium broke out with disease when i added it (first new fish to that aquarium in 18 months); having said that i use that specific aquarium for 'qt' or growing new fishes before moving them to their final home so it is not a total disaster other than having to treat the aquarium.

Anyway I got a bit side track and convoluted in my response but i wanted to be fair about these things. While paying more for healthy well raised fishes can be understandable i just can't see myself buying a blackwater fish kept in the environment Dan uses at 2x to 3x the cost that i can obtain it from other reliable sources.

 

[GaryE]

I see a pattern with some Canadian shops/dealers where they begin with wild caught imports only, and establish a reputation because of that. Then, as they grow, they begin to buy farm raised species, usually Asian ones. Hobbyists demand those species.
They lose their wild caught fish clientele, unless they label them well. Even there, wild fish tend to pick up new to them diseases from the farmed fish, and the reputation of the seller drops. The previously healthy fish, which share water or even tanks with farmed fish suffer. So do the hobbyists who buy them.
Again, Dan's is in a foreign country to me, so I can't comment on their stock. But a couple of small stores with online clienteles in Canada are losing their edge fast as the temptation of cheaper farmed fish catches them. International shipping costs have risen by a lot, and that is hurting in more ways than one.

 

[Innesfan]

While paying more for healthy well raised fishes can be understandable i just can't see myself buying a blackwater fish kept in the environment Dan uses at 2x to 3x the cost that i can obtain it from other reliable sources.

THAT'S the issue for me. And in many cases it's far more than 2-3x the cost. There are other equally reliable sources out there with comparable and even more interesting and expansive offerings that are not subjected to a liquid rock environment while they are there.