Is Advice Always Correct?

[Mat.P]

Hi, i have had my setup running nearly 5 months now and was curious about something,

My setup is:

Kent marine 90litre with skimmer upgraded pumps/heater and powerhead
12kg live rock
80w pc lights with led lights
2 inch sandbed

Parameters:
Temp 26
Ph 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate below 5

Inhbitants :
2 true percula clowns
1 blue tang
1 gramma

3 turbo snails
4 nasara snails
Astria stars 1-3
1x red brittle star
sandsifting star
red/brown star (unknown)
Sea urchin
pink tipped nem
red cleaner shrimp

Now my question concerns things i have read recently, my tank has been rock solid since day one never had nitrates above 5 after 2 weeks of cycling fish free although i waited 4 weeks before i put stock in, all of the above live stock were introduced slowly over a period of 2 weeks
i had the tank running about a month when i joined the forum although i never really came on here as everything has been fine.

now as i have got curious and wanted to learn as much as i can about the creatures in my tank i hav naturaly been reading about things on the internet and im amazed at some of the thinks i am seeing, acording to the internet i should have nothing left living in my tank however everything seems to be healthy, apparently my sandsifter should have starved to death months ago but he hasnt and has grown back a leg he had missing when i bought him and is rather fond of krill fish for food (only found out because he was found with his stomach out on a piece that missed the nem, the red star i saved from death as it was noticed by me desintegrating on some legs in the lfs tank and they was going to use it as food for some harlequin shrimp but i said i would try my luck with it and it healed and is now healthy and surfing my live rock, also read that sifters deplete the sandbed of small critters yet after lights out with a magnify glass and red light i see thousands of little creatures crawling around also have loads of little creatures in the live rock that i cant id.

also my nem has full colour and hasnt moved since he settled in the begining, my lfs guy owns his own tank and always told me he would rather leave than tell me to buy something that wouldnt survive, he told me many things that he would not sell me for my tank but the things i have have been fine and i have some lovely corals that the guy gave me pieces from his own tank and they have grown all over my rocks.

The lfs says i am the first person he ever saw save a star that was so far gone, and he always said that if anything he sold doesnt look well they will take it back but this has never been needed.

so why am i reading about so many people being flammed on forums everywhere for keeping sandsifters to name one when mine has been fine, it seems to me that maybe all tanks are not alike.

idk but maybe some of you guys have some ideas? Is there any reason why things seem to do so well in mine and not others?

Mat.

 

[MrsM]

Maybe your lucky, or maybe your just ace... who knows.....

 

[Aquascaper]

Every tank is different and most advice is given to cover as many scenarios as possible. For every 90 litre tank like yours that has housed a sand sifter, for example, there will be 10 that have tried and failed therefore the advice would be not to keep a sand sifter in a 90 litre. The best advice though will always come with additional info rather than a blanket statement.

Just out of interest, is the LFS guy the same person which sold you the blue tang?

 

[Chad]

Advice is not always correct. That's the short answer to your question.

Take sand sifting seastars as an example. I kept one for 5 years in a smallish tank (and he was live and healthy when I gave him away).

According to what I had read this shouldn't happen. Why did it then? In my case the seastar fed when the fish fed. He would rise up out of the sand, just like a nassarius snail does, and go right over to food that hit the bottom. This animal was given to me by someone who was breaking down their tank. They knew it behaved this way so knew it would be fine in my tank and it was.

This does not mean that I recommend sand sifting stars to people as some do not exhibit this behavior. Perhaps it is due to location of harvest or how much time they have spent in a tank.

If they do not feed supplementally they will starve, as will the small red fromia seastars. One reason people often feel they are doing fine (absent supplemental feeding) is that it can take up to a year for them to starve to death and die. This is especially true of the fromia species.

So I think perhaps it's a matter of not enough time having passed to know for sure on the red one, and lucking out with the sifter.

 

[Aquascaper]

Well said

It can be the same with anything in a marine tank as fish are not the only living things that are in there. Anemones can be fine one minute and die the next nuking the whole tank, nudibranches can nuke tanks on a whim, corals can be fine one minute and dead the next......there's just so many variables to factor in that giving precise statements in what will and won't work is next to impossible, all that can be given is opinions and experiences. Because of this 'newbies' are usually given advice to stay away from more problematic things more down to lack of overall experience rather than tank suitability, etc.

 

[Mat.P]

Thanks for the advice, i have been keeping a very close eye on everything in my tank, im a bit ocd about things maybe that could be part of the reason, i have watched closely the feeding habits of the stars as they are a species that fascinate me, the sandsifter seems to like quite a few different suppliments i buy frozen from the lfs, i have however realized that they wont eat if you touch or make them stress, so what i do is place the food a good distsnce away from them just before lights out (burried for the sifter with a marker so i can see he got it after) at this point within a few minutes he rises from the sand and goes straight to it then sinks on top! The orange one also eats suppliment but likes the algea on the back wall equally as much, same with the brittle, i dont feed the little stars they were on the rock and lfs said will buy them for harlequins when they multiply more.

also regarding the tang i am aware of the fact that he will get big i did plenty of research, he is no bigger than the clowns at the moment but i am saving for a red sea max full size tank to be bought in the next 6 months if this does not happen for any reason then my neighbour would gratefully have him in his 250gal, so he shouldnt be to big yet as i have been told it takes upto 7 years for them to reach full size.

cant wait to see what else i can get once i upgrade but for now i am very happy with my current tanks pregress.

MAT.

 

[Aquascaper]

Sounds like a good plan, just a point about the tang (from personal experience) they are exceptionally susceptible to getting Ich at the slightest hint of stress so if you don't know already, a read up on ways to deal with that would be time well spent. It's often not a question of if but when they get it

 

[Mat.P]

Sounds like a good plan, just a point about the tang (from personal experience) they are exceptionally susceptible to getting Ich at the slightest hint of stress so if you don't know already, a read up on ways to deal with that would be time well spent. It's often not a question of if but when they get it

ah thanks this is not something i was aware of so i will do some research on treatment and behavour so i know what to expect and how to deal with it, i keep a small emergency tank just in case i have to do a rescue ie broken glass or whatever else could happen so i could isolate if it was nessasary, i actually want to set up a fuge but its a tecnical challenge on a tank like this, i thought about using hoses down the back of the tank and a cistern float switch to stop overflow and also a relay switch to a pump to prevent it from going dry should anything go wrong, does it seem possible or even worth the effort as not much gallon wise would fit in the cabinet anyway prob only 5-10 at a push.

mat.

 

[Chad]

Eshopps makes a good hang on overflow. I used on on my 50 gallon for a few years and really loved it.

 

[Aquascaper]

As most of the equipment is hidden in the Kent Marine tanks anyway the only benefits would be the larger overall water volume and somewhere to house macros, etc.

It's always worth doing a sump IMO but very much down to the individual if there's no definite need.

 

[Chad]

It's always worth doing a sump IMO but very much down to the individual if there's no definite need.

+1 I am a huge fan. It allows those using the Berlin method to put some live rock there instead of or as well as the display and to grow macros or add extra equipment like reactors and a larger skimmer.

 

[Mat.P]

It's always worth doing a sump IMO but very much down to the individual if there's no definite need.

+1 I am a huge fan. It allows those using the Berlin method to put some live rock there instead of or as well as the display and to grow macros or add extra equipment like reactors and a larger skimmer.

I was viewing it primarily as a added security for my live stock, should i have a compatability issue between any tank mates and also should any problems occur with the stars it would be an area already loaded with their food in an emergency, i dont know which method i would use i am quite keen on the deepsandbed idea unless there is a reason why i shouldnt, also as i understand it a sump further stabilises my ph by eliminating swing due to lighting whereas i could light the sump when the main lights are off.

mat.

 

[Chad]

If you grow macro algae in the sump and have the light on counter to the main light (i.e. main lights are on sump light is off, main lights off sump light is on) then you can stabilize your pH by having photosynthesis going on all day long so there's no drop when the lights go out.

DSB have mixed benefits/problems but are worth investigating. I chose not to have one anymore and just do live rock and cheato in my tank.

Some sumps are large enough to house fish. Mine is too small. They are also often not well designed for fish but in a pinch it's a place to put a crab, mantis, or other hitchhiker.

 

[Aquascaper]

Agree with all the above and I too just go for LR/macros in the sump and don't really concern myself with DSB's.

As for putting a starfish in there.....tbh if you have a problem with one it will be because it's dying and therefore not something you want to keep in the tanks water system so not really a consideration IMO.

 

[Donya]

Giant gaping pitfall that should stick out right from the start: common names - don't use them without pictures! They are NOT precise.

Scientific names are hard to nail down for stars sometimes so I can understand not using them, but never without a picture for these animals. Get pictures up of your stars to have them IDed, as I have no idea what you might have from those descriptions. There are at least 4 different species I've seen sold fairly regularly in my area as just straight up "sand sifters" and one of them appears to not even sand sift in the classic way when eating well otherwise (and I've observed it to eat prawns...so maybe this is yours, but who knows without a picture!). I've seen equally many things sold as a "red star." There are Echinasters and Fromias under this name among others.

Common name misuse and ambiguity results in an awful lot of invertebrate cases I've seen where people boast success with X where others failed with X. Make sure it's the same X first and that X is only one species before making such an assertion. For example, I have seen/heard people boast of success with stars when they actually had serpents/brittles, which are vastly hardier than true stars. Similarly so with chocolate chip stars and their relatives in various colors - where the biggest issue is that they are TOO easy to feed and will sometimes snack on anything that doesn't run off fast enough (needless to say, few people complain of these stars starving although they are often taken out by injuries). Your species still need to be resolved before relative success can be evaluated.

Also, unfortunately 5 months is not yet what a lot of people would consider long-term success with a lot of starfish. It's certainly past many of the short-term killers of stars, but not into long-term yet. Many people have non-CC and non-Asterina stars die before a year is up, sometimes recovering from an injury or another in the process before eventually disintegrating for no obvious reason. Surviving several months is not that uncommon. People are then baffled by the death because of months of "success," but stars do not decline quickly so it is incredibly hard to gauge when long term success has actually happened except by asking people to report back in a year. I am sorry to sound grim, but I have just read way too many threads from people asking why their stars suddenly started falling apart after various durations of appearing to be fine.