I urge everyone to take the time to read the interview. Although quite comprehensive, i think you will agree there are some very interesting facts and statements to backup the argument i have been trying to highlight with regards to cycling using an alternative method.
OK, completed that fairly comprehensive interview, and I agree, a lot of interesting points were raised, though many aren't about the topic of your OP
![good :good: :good:](/images/smilies/ipb/good.gif)
I'll start with the bits relavant to Bactinettes, and then move onto some more interesting points, such as test kit accuracy and aclimation, all of which were discussed in that interview and have sparked my interest....
There are only a couple of products available in the world of this nature and if either are available to you and you are cycling a tank for the first time, this is something you should consider and support.
Well, I think you saw the responce to that statement above in previous posts, and my thoughts after the reading of the interview have not changed my mind about the product. I won't be supporting this product as a viable alternative to fishless cycling
on it's own
I have pasted the interview in full without any alterations other than highlighting, in bold, statements i feel are worthy.
I will leave your highlights in bold, and add my own in italics
CT: Most of our members know you as the person that pioneered BioSpira, which is a cycling product that actually contains the proper bacteria for cycling a tank. It is noteworthy to mention that the product actually works as advertised! I'm interested in knowing how the product came about and the amount of effort and time that went into developing and marketing it.
Does this product work as advertised is the question you should be asking here
![nod :nod: :nod:](/images/smilies/ipb/yes.gif)
The product is advertised as being able to instantly cycle a tank for a modest bio-load. A point is raised later in the intervies below...
CT: Is it possible to fishless cycle a tank using BioSpira?
Dr. Tim: Sure, the bacteria don’t care if the ammonia comes from fish or an inorganic source. As long as it’s ammonia they’ll use it. So use BioSpira® as directed and add ammonia but do not let the ammonia concentration get too high, say above 5 to 10 mg/L. Best to start with about 1 to 2 mg/L and as that is oxidized slowly increase the amount of ammonia added. You’ll see that in a very short time the system can oxidize all the ammonia to nitrate overnight. Now you can add fish to the system.
However I must point out, there is no real need to do a fishless cycle if one uses BioSpira®. If you use it as directed and maintain a fish density of six Rosy Barb sized fish per 10 gallons you will find the ammonia and nitrite does not get above 2 to 3 mg/L and then only for a day or two at most. And don’t overfeed!
Instantly cycled? I think not
![crazy :crazy: :crazy:](/images/smilies/ipb/crazy.gif)
In a cycled tank, ammonia and nitrite are
always zero If ammonia and nitrite rise in a new tank, it isn't cycled. If they raise in a well established tank, it's likely a mini-cycle or an equipment fault. To me this ammonia and nitrite raise after adding fish with bio-spira, means that the product isn't working as advertised. The product is advertised as intantly cycling the tank. By my definition of cycled, it takes the product a day or two to cycle the tank, therefore IMO it does not work as advertised. I would point out though, that a day or two for a cycle is a significant improvement on a normal cycle and the product would be a viable way to speed up a cycle, if, as bolded by you, the product was correctly handled
After over a year of not getting positive results, I was basically forced to change the direction of my research from how many nitrifiers to who are the nitrifiers. This was a lot of work making clone libraries and sequencing gels. But it resulted in the discovery that Nitrobacter species were not present in aquaria samples but there were lots of bacteria that were most closely related to Nitrospira. At that time, Nitrospira were considered a strange bacterium that was not important. My research changed that. The first paper was published in January 1998 and later in that same year three other research groups (one in Australia, two in Germany) also published papers showing that Nitrospira-like bacteria not Nitrobacter were the bacteria responsible for nitrification in many different types of aquatic systems.
As Andy points out above, bactinettes does not use the same bacteria as biospria, and thus, as such, will only theoretically speed the processing of ammonia, but not make a significant improvement on nitrite oxidification times. I know you have experienced in practice that the product does. Based on the bacteria presant in bactinettes though, I would'nt be supprised if nitrite spiked anythime in the first 6 months in your tank, as the supplied bacteria for nitrite oxidation die off without nitrospira, the true nitrite oxidising bacteria, there to take over nitrite oxifdation in sufficient quantities.
Dr. Tim: Only very few test kit brands accurately measure water quality parameters. If you want to get good data then use test kits from Kordon or Aquarium Systems. Other than those, I would say use the liquid products over the tablets. The tablets are the worst. Most test kits give false positive readings (meaning they indicate that ammonia, for example, is present when it is not). In general, pH and nitrite kits are the most accurate while ammonia and nitrate are the least accurate. And keep the reagents fresh! But for most kits they give only a general indication.
This is something that supports the advise given by regular forum members, in that liquid kits are better than strips or tablets. Interestingly Dr Hovanec does not rate tablets over strips, as is the consencus amongst members on here...
![-_- -_- -_-](/images/smilies/ipb/sleep.png)
Dr Hovanec recomends a different brand to API which is a brand swarn by by most on here, instenad recomending Aquarium systems or Kordon kits. I wonder if this is a recomendation to use kits by his company, or genuine recomendations that he is making from his experience
CT: Along the same lines as adequate hobbyist test kits, are there other water parameters that should be monitored that typically aren't?
Dr. Tim: Most people don’t monitor their tank’s nitrite concentration. I think that is more important than ammonia for an established aquarium. This is because the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria are more sensitive than the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria to environment conditions. If something is wrong nitrite will show up before ammonia. I recommend nitrite and pH. pH will tell you when you need to change the water, nitrite will tell you when to clean the filter.
We recomend measuring nitrite concerntation to newbies, so this supports us here, though we tend to give ammonia more thought than nitrite, as ammonia is more toxic and does lasting damage, unlike (as far as I'm aware) nitrite. I question the methology behind using the point where the pH starts to crash to monitor when waterchanges are due, or using nitrite concerntrations to monitor when to clean the filter. I don't agree with this advise, and personally believe that these two maintanance tasks should be carried out long before these levels start to move
CT: Acclimation of new arrivals is one of those things that many hobbyists do with very little thought. Taking into account the toxic substances inside a shipping bag and the changes that occur once the bag is opened, do you feel that float and/or drip methods of acclimation are ideal? Why or why not?
Dr. Tim: Well this might get me in trouble but for most fish neither! I guess I should explain. For nearly 8 years or so, I have been in charge of the fish at the Marineland booth at the many industry trade shows we do each year (I just passed it along to another person I trained). There are about 6 or so shows a year where we set up aquaria. The largest shows involve 60 to 70 aquaria and/or commercial display units and are a mix of freshwater, saltwater and koi.
We have never used either method. We prep the water, getting rid of the chlorine, set the water temperature and add a pre-cultured BioWheel® to each system. The next day when the fish arrive from the airport we rip open the bags and carefully net the fish from the bags directly into the tanks. We virtually never lose fish from this and we always have the best displays. Most of the fish are right from the fish farm or the marine distributor so these are not conditioned fish.
If I had to choose one of the methods you mention I would go with floating. Seldom have I ever used the drip method. The problem with the drip method is that you are adding water with a high pH to the bag water, which has a high ammonia level. This causes the bag water pH to rise and makes more of the ammonia toxic. The vast majority of fish are tougher than we give them credit for and I would much rather give them a little temperature shock than soak them in ammonia.
This interests me, as I now make drip aclimations a habbit, unless a fish looks like it is realy suffering, then I do flow Dr Hovanec's advise. I remember there being a rather heated and controvertial discussion about this on here arround a year ago, with no general consensus reached. It is as a result of this discussion, that I started to follow my current procedures. With this, I'd surgest that you follow whatever method works for you, but try floating first, as this is the most common method ATM
All the best
Rabbut