This is one of them grey areas of fish keeping. Darned if you do and darned if you dont.
Just keep on trudging along how you are
Just keep on trudging along how you are
Improving inherited nightmare tank - Ongoing
- Thread starter AdoraBelle Dearheart
- Start date
Treestone
Fish Fanatic
Amazing job you've done on that tank 
. Looks pretty good atm despite the difficulties as you mentioned. The nitrates are in a good range too. With that reasonably big stocking though how many stealth water changes do you have to do to keep up with the nitrates?
. Looks pretty good atm despite the difficulties as you mentioned. The nitrates are in a good range too. With that reasonably big stocking though how many stealth water changes do you have to do to keep up with the nitrates?
OP
OP
Thank you! I won't be entering it into any tank of the month contests, but it definitely looks better than it did. Live plants help so much.Amazing job you've done on that tank
It took a while to get the nitrates down to a reasonable level at first, they were well over 200ppm and must have been for a very long time, so I had to do gradual water changes days apart and bring them down slowly. As much as I wanted to drain and refill the tank, I read that that could kill them when there hadn't been many water changes for a long time. Especially since it had been topped up a lot rather than changed, and I wanted to switch it over to a rain/tap water mix instead of only rainwater.
There are two large filters at the back in the hood, I don't know what they're called really, they look really 60s/70s - just big plastic boxes with dividers in them, output is a little pipe that comes out the top middle. They look old, but they also have a ton of space for media. (@Retired Viking do you remember filters like these?) They used to just have chunks of charcoal and some filter floss in them and he'd turn them off to rest them. I removed the charcoal and rammed them full of ceramic rings, bio balls and sponges, and added a HOB just for some extra filtration and to add some flow across the front of the tank. Most of the BB must have been in the substrate, since the fish survived him resting the motor a lot, and he didn't have any fast growing plants back then either. He must have had some losses doing that, but he's lucky not to have lost all of them.
At least these are small-ish fish
I think the mollies are probably the biggest waste producers in there, and with 57 gallons, the amount of BB in the substrate, the additional filtration and the plants I've added, it handles it well. Weekly water changes are usually enough, but with the amount of larger fry in there now, it needs it a little closer to every 5 days. I've been medicating the tanks for worms so it's had two changes this week and will have a third tonight.Will be glad to finish the repeat rounds of meds! Has been a lot of water changes
Luckily I don't mind doing them. Plus then I can remove a load of young fish to go to the store at last, which will help with the over stocking.
OP
OP
Quite a few years ago he also had a tropical fish tank, am guessing maybe a 120l tank that had likely to be soft water since is in Scotland and in that tank he had platies, mollies, neons, tiger barbs, a couple of small plecos or cories (can’t remember tbh) oh and guppies
Fake plants and cheap decor with mid to fine gravel substrate.
Water changes were once every 3 weeks or once a month depending on his mood, filter maintenance non existent and somehow the mollies as well as the platies bred and some fry survived.
the mind boggles!!
But actually, that was the norm for those days back then so dad can’t really be blamed for all that and still to this day he still thinks all that was quite correct despite my explanations and seeing my tanks which he has seen quite a few times and still he asks why do I change the water every week and I explain wearily and yet “waste of time and water!” he says every time!
Some you win, some you lose! Heh
I... I think we must be related. I can hear my dad saying "waste of time and water!" If you hadn't said Scotland, I'd have thought you were a long lost brother or something.
Ooohh, what fish do you keep?
I've given up explaining why water changes are needed now too. He seemed to accept it a little bit when I showed him nitrate results with the API kit and compared mine to his, and said that the red meant it needed a water change, so when he grumbles when he sees a water change I just say "nitrates were high" and he usually accepts it. I can tell he still doesn't like it or quite trust it, but he's not arguing it so much.Oh man, the description of the tropical tank! Yes, I think that's exactly how it used to be done. I guess I'm lucky that he doesn't like neon gravel or fake plants and ornaments! But I do think that's exactly how people always used to stock community tanks. Over stocked, no regard for hard/soft water, or which substrate, and even which fish went with which fish. My dad didn't like aggressive fish so things like tiger barbs were out, but I bet they were in most community tanks of his generation. No filter cleaning either! How did their fish survive??
These three giant black mollies in my dad's tank.. I shudder to think everything they've survived. They're at least 5, and I think maybe older. They survived a full tank crash, all the times he turned the filter off for days, nitrates at sky high levels for years, and him using exclusively rain water for years, which is really soft. How are they alive?? Yet here they are, and you can tell from the size of them that they're not new young fish. The gold dust molly in there is an adult, yet they're easily 3-4 times the size of her. They probably were bred in that tank though, they've had black mollies for so long. I struggled so long to get guppies that were healthy enough to live in a well maintained tank where they were babied and carefully nurtured, yet they'd keel over for no obvious reason. But these mollies man... they're tough as nails, but also come and eat food from my hands. I kinda love them.
I asked my dad, and he said my uncle (old family friend who also keeps fish, so should know better) bought him the botia. Just showed up with the two of them as a gift, so they went in the tank. Apparently he got quite a few of his fish that way. Will chat with my uncle next time we speak and ask him not to bring anymore since the tank is full.
And @Retired Viking has confirmed that not doing large water changes too often was the norm, and it was considered dangerous, so that helps. We both just have to remember that our dads are going off what they learned back then, and it must be hard to accept that newer science says they were doing it wrong all those years. Trying to imagine if there was another new big change in the fish keeping world, how we'd adapt. @Retired Viking, big kudos to you for keeping up with how the hobby has changed and adapted along with it
OP
OP
Just checked, and my LFS has bronze cories in, four for £10, so all being well, I'll be taking a load of young mollies/platies in on Tuesday and picking up some more bronze cories so the two in this tank have a little group.
There isn't usually a problem introducing a younger group of cories to older ones, is there? @NCaquatics? Cories are so peaceful I know, I just want to double check
There isn't usually a problem introducing a younger group of cories to older ones, is there? @NCaquatics? Cories are so peaceful I know, I just want to double check
I once came across a book at my parents' house containing tips for various things around the house. Once section was on aquariums. This book was written in the 1960s. They had drawings rather than images and one was of a filter. This was a box containing carbon with a layer of filter wool on top, and powered by an air pump. Apart from the motor, this sounds similar to what was in your father's tank.
Some things I have read over the years about fish keeping decades ago include:
- if you really must do a water change, leave the new water standing for days to get rid of the chlorine (no dechlorinators back then, and no chloramine either so this did work)
- bacteria? why do I want bacteria in my tank?
- the water goes yellow between water changes so filters should contain carbon to remove the yellow (water does go yellow if water changes are only done weeks or months apart)
- salt is good for fish (we now know it protected the fish against nitrite poisoning)
- water changes are bad for fish (well, they would be if only done once every few weeks/months as the tanks suffered from old tank syndrome)
- don't do a water change for at least a week before going on holiday as some fish will die after a water change (as a result of old tank syndrome)
Does any of this sound familiar?
Some things I have read over the years about fish keeping decades ago include:
- if you really must do a water change, leave the new water standing for days to get rid of the chlorine (no dechlorinators back then, and no chloramine either so this did work)
- bacteria? why do I want bacteria in my tank?
- the water goes yellow between water changes so filters should contain carbon to remove the yellow (water does go yellow if water changes are only done weeks or months apart)
- salt is good for fish (we now know it protected the fish against nitrite poisoning)
- water changes are bad for fish (well, they would be if only done once every few weeks/months as the tanks suffered from old tank syndrome)
- don't do a water change for at least a week before going on holiday as some fish will die after a water change (as a result of old tank syndrome)
Does any of this sound familiar?
OP
OP
Very! That's exactly how his filter was laid out too, a bunch of charcoal along the bottom, filter floss on top. And charcoal that hadn't been changed, so was useless too.
Just went hunting through their bookshelves to find old books. They used to keep reference books on so many animals, still have a few, but my mum did clear out and donate a lot of them years ago. Found four on fish and aquariums, dated 1998, 1991, 1987 and 1978.
Will have a browse through those and pick out some highlights! My parents pack rat tendencies have annoyed me a lot over the years, but kinda wishing they'd held on to more of the old reference books now.
Just saw in the 1991 book; "The great majority of aquarium fishes can be kept in medium hard to hard water. Precise requirements of individual species are given in the descriptions of species"
It does suggest some ways to lower carbonate hardness, saying it may be necessary if you want to breed soft-water fishes. So perhaps the attitude was that medium hard to hard was fine to keep them in, and only needed adjusting if you wanted to breed? It'll be fun to look more at the 1978 book.
ClownLurch
Fish Gatherer
If he has a whinge just tell him he should be proud to have raised a daughter so open minded to change and scientific advances. One that cares for other living beings and wants to do the best for them even if as it turns out she maybe unwittingly hadnt been in the past and didn’t mind admitting any mistakes unknowingly made.
Once he sees what you’re driving at....
Once he sees what you’re driving at....
OP
OP
Yep, he's done this. I mentioned to you before I think that during dry spells before, he's topped off the rain barrel from the hosepipe and left it uncovered to let the chlorine air off, and remember him doing the same with buckets of water when I was a kid.
I think he's become more resistant about water changes as he's aged than he used to be, I remember helping to gravel vac his tanks sometimes as a kid, because I found that really fun and sorta magical the way dirt would be sucked up the syphon but the gravel wasn't. My mum also remembers the old days pretty well and has said they certainly did plenty of water changes when they had the shop, but she usually got stuck with them, lol. But that belief that water changes cause harm is definitely ingrained in his brain, and he still thinks that carbon is essential. He just never removes or looks inside the filter, lol.
His tank most certainly had old tank syndrome, he had a bad crash some years ago before I knew much about tanks; just remember him telling me about so many die offs, and he didn't know what was wrong, but was probably not inclined to do water changes I'd imagine, since he thought they stress and harm the fish. He was very upset and frustrated, and thought about giving up the tank then. It's just looking back at it now I assume that's probably what happened. And it had old tank syndrome for sure when I first took it over and got sky high nitrate readings, hence the gradual spaced out smaller water changes before I dared to do a large one.
It's pretty fascinating really to see how much the hobby has changed in the last 30-50 years, and I do feel better about the tank knowing that he was doing his best according to the knowledge he had. It was a different time.
Aaaww, thank you! And he raised me to look for answers in books, and to give the best animal care possible, we always had a lot of pets when I was growing up, and still have a fair amount between my parents and I. So really, I'm just doing what he taught me to do
ClownLurch
Fish Gatherer
Then tell him to move with the times himself. He’s an old dog and there’s new tricks to be learnt. Get him researching this stuff.Yep, he's done this. I mentioned to you before I think that during dry spells before, he's topped off the rain barrel from the hosepipe and left it uncovered to let the chlorine air off, and remember him doing the same with buckets of water when I was a kid.
I think he's become more resistant about water changes as he's aged than he used to be, I remember helping to gravel vac his tanks sometimes as a kid, because I found that really fun and sorta magical the way dirt would be sucked up the syphon but the gravel wasn't. My mum also remembers the old days pretty well and has said they certainly did plenty of water changes when they had the shop, but she usually got stuck with them, lol. But that belief that water changes cause harm is definitely ingrained in his brain, and he still thinks that carbon is essential. He just never removes or looks inside the filter, lol.
His tank most certainly had old tank syndrome, he had a bad crash some years ago before I knew much about tanks; just remember him telling me about so many die offs, and he didn't know what was wrong, but was probably not inclined to do water changes I'd imagine, since he thought they stress and harm the fish. He was very upset and frustrated, and thought about giving up the tank then. It's just looking back at it now I assume that's probably what happened. And it had old tank syndrome for sure when I first took it over and got sky high nitrate readings, hence the gradual spaced out smaller water changes before I dared to do a large one.
It's pretty fascinating really to see how much the hobby has changed in the last 30-50 years, and I do feel better about the tank knowing that he was doing his best according to the knowledge he had. It was a different time.
Aaaww, thank you! And he raised me to look for answers in books, and to give the best animal care possible, we always had a lot of pets when I was growing up, and still have a fair amount between my parents and I. So really, I'm just doing what he taught me to do
My dad (84) also started me on fishkeeping all those years ago. Over winter he stayed with us for 4 months and just managed to get home before everywhere went into lockdown. He assured me that I was obsessive and my water change routine would harm my fish. Fortunately I was in the position to play the "my fish, my house" card.
He did sit and watch the fish for hours when I was at work and before he went home he conceded that he had not once seen algae or any fish that was even slightly off colour. Remember those twice a year tank cleans - and the smell!
He did sit and watch the fish for hours when I was at work and before he went home he conceded that he had not once seen algae or any fish that was even slightly off colour. Remember those twice a year tank cleans - and the smell!
OP
OP
LOL! Well, he won't be browsing the internet, he struggles with the cordless phone at times. But a nice new, up to date book with some beautiful aquarium photos might make a great Christmas gift for him! Educational, but an innocent gift...
I love that people are sharing their experiences with the tanks they grew up with! And the old guard lectures on our dangerous water changing ways, lol. I don't think anyone could look at your beautiful healthy planted tanks and thriving fish, and claim that you must be doing something wrong. Your tanks are an orgy of evidence to the contrary.
Twice a year?
What did the great bi-annual cleaning involve doing?
Adding new cories is no problem with the older ones
Holy cow that stocking nearly gave me a heart attack... 
Keep on keeping on! You’re doing a great job.
Keep on keeping on! You’re doing a great job.
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