Impending pH crash?

[thomas]

I have a tank with a very low pH (6ish) the fish are all ok, but I am worryed about pH crash.

The alkalinity appears to be zero (test shows little changes).

I am worryed I am gonna have a pH crash that will kill everything.

What I thought of doing was to do a bunch of water changes with my tap water, which has a very high pH and a kh of 5-6 (Which seems better)

What should I do?

EDIT: I am a bit worryed tho because theres extreamly high ammonia in my tap water. At the pH of the tank and quite a bit higher it should be in it's harmless form. But in the tap water it's quite dangorous.

I am also worryed about directly exposing the fish to radicly different water if the happen to swim into the area I pour the water into. What I thought of was mixing the tank water with some of the water we put in to help make it simmiler, and too stir it a bit just after pouring in.

 

[den]

How about quickly adding some 'established' gravel and media - even water?
Ask your local fish shop, or friend with established, healthy tank, if they could spare a decent chunk of gravel (you can always just hang it in a nylon or breeding net if you don't want to actually dump it in, then return it?), and the same with any 'used' filter material (sponge?) that they can spare. After all, it is an emergency. A large bag of established water as well?
I've done this, and it can take under 24 hours to turn around. (Depending of course.)

Ask LFS / friend, if they can 'hold' some fish while you get it back?

G'Luck!

 

[FishDan]

How long has the tank been established? I'm not certain I understand why you are worried about a "potential pH crash"? Has your tank pH always been low? Did you add something that may be lowering it?

I'm not sure what adding established gravel etc is going to do for the pH problem. And using "established" water doesn't do anything, as bacteria doesn't live in the water column but on surfaces under the water. If your tap has high amounts of ammonia, use a conditioner that also nuetralizes ammonia. I believe AmQuel does this. There are probably others.

\Dan

 

[thomas]

Alright, I'll look for safe ammonia nuetralizes at the fish shop when I go next.

Saddly I don't know anyone who could take the fish, and the 2 local fish stores I know here don't do that.

I'm worryed about a pH crash because of the already low pk and alkalinity.

I would prefer not to meddle with the pH, but it needs to be more stable if I am not mistaken.

 

[reg2k2]

I'm a little confused the diff. in KH betw. tank and tap. 5-6dKH should be able to hold pH steady.
By chance, are you adding CO2?....this could lower it.

My tap has high pH, 0KH; I use crushed coral in the filter.
Again, your source water is different than mine, so not sure if that's how you want to go....

Maybe try setting a sample of tap aside for a day, and re-test...the pH may drop.
Does the ammonia measure in the tank?

 

[thomas]

Tap has kh of 5, tank has, unless I am misreading, 0!

 

[FishDan]

You are right, your pH should be steady. That's why I asked what the pH in the tank has been all along. If you are worried about the difference in pH between your tap and your tank, that is different, and not going to cause a pH crash. My tap water tests at a pH of between 7 and 7.2. My tank has a pH of 8.2 on average. I determined this is because my water needs to "age" a day to let the CO2 outgas to give me a true pH reading of my water. In order to not harm my fish I usually let water change water sit out for 24 hours before adding it to my tank. However, the more I study the issue the more it seems this is not needed except in severe cases when more than 40-50% of your water needs to be changed. Having the fish "swim though" the area where you pour your water will not harm them.

If the pH of your tank is fluctuating, then I'd worry. If your tank pH is stable but your tap is different, don't worry about this either. Try testing your tap water after it has sat out in a container for 24 hours. This should give you a true pH reading.

\Dan

 

[reg2k2]

Tap has kh of 5, tank has, unless I am misreading, 0!

Yes, that's why I'm confused. Something's bringing it down. A brief check says that adding CO2, or RO water (0KH untreated), or a product meant to lower KH are possible causes. I'm sure there could be more (no chem. expert here ).
So, I thought if you had live plants, you might be adding CO2?

From what you've posted, and w/ a 0KH reading...I'd say the pH *is* dropping.
The coral fixes the problem for me, but 0 is my natural KH. It used to keep my tank at 7.0. It's raised to mid-7's due, I believe, to many small wc's...but this is over an extended period (months).
Yours being 5-6, I'm thinking if you set the water aside, your plan of increased wc's may do the job, w/out the worry.
But, still wondering about the cause...

Having the fish "swim though" the area where you pour your water will not harm them.

Agreed. Altho, I add mine straight from tap (8.0), often 50%. )

 

[den]

I'm not sure what adding established gravel etc is going to do for the pH problem. And using "established" water doesn't do anything, as bacteria doesn't live in the water column but on surfaces under the water. If your tap has high amounts of ammonia, use a conditioner that also nuetralizes ammonia. I believe AmQuel does this. There are probably others.



\Dan

It's all actually going to do a lot, but, well, as I say, it HAS worked for me, and has been advised by many.
I don't mean to underrate your advice as it sounds like you know much more, but adding established gravel, water and media (I believe) can help boost the colonization, therefor leading to a quicker and more natural cycling (or re-cycling) process. (Outside of plants, decorations, etc that have outsdide influence)
Personally, I'm against additives (such as AmQuil) not because they're evil, but because the method I talked of above, is a more natural method. Though, if your sure that your method is best, then hats off to ya!
(We could argue this, but let's not. Reg2K2's situation is what's important.)

Cheers and good luck Reg.
-den

 

[Bangin]

You can raise the kH by adding baking soda. I believe the amount is 1 teaspoon per 10-15 gallons will increase the kH by 4°. I'm not sure if someone above mentioned that.

 

[den]

yes, and throwing a shell (sea) into the tank, or Baking Soda raise the F##king Ph.

I'M NO EXPERT - but it just makes sense that if you want to get things back to normal - then re-examine the stuff (not fish) in your tank.

Remove "anything" that could be suspicious.

Safely containe your fish - then remove / test the additives.(Local LFS? / Friend?)

Start with the gravel / substrate. (Despite what some may say, this actually DOES consume much of the PH constant,)

Your filter. probably doesn't need cleaning, but can you put a "used" filter in? (LFS?)

I know some folk disagree with this, but I'm honestly trying to help you.
(It has helped me and that is not something that anyone can disagree with.)

Good luck!

 

[thomas]

The tanks well established, I would like to know whats wrong with simply doing lots of water changes with my tap water since it itself is a source of high pH water. These are all great suggestions, but I'm nervious about raising the pH too fast, especially when the fish are ok right now.

I can't move the fish, I have explained why already.

Since my tap water is fine, wouldn't it work to make the tank more like the tap water with water changes. I think the problem could of simply been caused by lack of water changes.

 

[squidlips]

adding the shell or dead coral or most porus rocks will only slowly change your ph .. do it its gooood

 

[FishDan]

I'm not sure what adding established gravel etc is going to do for the pH problem. And using "established" water doesn't do anything, as bacteria doesn't live in the water column but on surfaces under the water. If your tap has high amounts of ammonia, use a conditioner that also nuetralizes ammonia. I believe AmQuel does this. There are probably others.



\Dan

It's all actually going to do a lot, but, well, as I say, it HAS worked for me, and has been advised by many.
I don't mean to underrate your advice as it sounds like you know much more, but adding established gravel, water and media (I believe) can help boost the colonization, therefor leading to a quicker and more natural cycling (or re-cycling) process. (Outside of plants, decorations, etc that have outsdide influence)
Personally, I'm against additives (such as AmQuil) not because they're evil, but because the method I talked of above, is a more natural method. Though, if your sure that your method is best, then hats off to ya!
(We could argue this, but let's not. Reg2K2's situation is what's important.)

Cheers and good luck Reg.
-den

Just a little bit more of my off topic here... For cycling the method you use is great, I use it as well. It is a supeer way to help your cycle along at a fast pace. My questioning of the method was in reference to helping the pH situation.

I am no expert on fish, nor do I claim to be. I think one of the great things about this hobby is the sheer number of ways to do things. Everyone has their own little "tricks" and that's great, and there is always something to be learned from someone else. I pick up new tricks all the time. So long as the fish are not harmed, I think it's great that there are so many ways to do things.

/end hijack

\Dan

 

[Colin_BC]

I am not a huge fan of using different water treatments either. My tap water is horrible as well, but I've fixed that without any chemicals. The ammonia and chlorine are problems. You can smell the chlorine as soon as you turn the water on even a little bit. I brought my LFS owner a sample of my tap water and a sample of my tank water to get his thoughts. He tested one container and told me I should probably be doing another water change in the next day or two. I then pointed out to him that the water he just tested was my tap water, not water from my tank. I had been using mostly RO water in the tank at that point, but it was getting costly. The LFS owner suggested I buy a Brita tap filter and use that for my tank water. I eventually took his advice and bought one. It's cleaned my tap water up. Makes sense now that I think about it when you consider Brita and other similar products just force the water through activated carbon. We can even drink our water now if we choose. Perhaps this can help you and your fish? The only chem's I add are Seachem plant products (jungle in my tank), a Nutrafin pH down on occasion if needed(contains NO phosphates), and pH Stabalizer/kH Booster.

Colin