If Ur A Fish Lover

[Shizat]

QUOTE (Shizat @ Apr 5 2004, 04:58 PM)
The person who runs deathbydyeing.org has done no research what so ever. It looks like all they did was get a one page article that some non-credited journalist wrote or maybe just some guy and posted it on his site. Give the real facts before you get a lot of people in an uproar about something that doesn't even come close to what your trying to portray.


Ok shizat are u calling A BIG organazation a LIE, Well excuse the hell out of me.............. If u dont know the facts please dont write in this Thread.

Now a lot of people HERE THERE EVERYWERE agree with me fish suffer too much pain getting dyed. Why For some money?..............Well Again excuse the hell out of me if Im trying to SEND THE MESSAGE around if u dont APRECIATE the work Im doing Well Talk Now or forever Be SILENT.


55gallondude please show us where you are getting this information because you are telling hudreds of people that dyeing kills 90-95 percent of the fish that it is done to any all that you have to back it up is a crummy website with 1 article on it. I have never heard of your BIG organization before this website and I feel that you need to do more research and actually interview people that do this for a living before you make judgements on what is being practiced. Lets see some raw data that backs up all your claims on this subject. Its rediculous how you can misinform all these people on this.

 

[Gabe]

Just tried using one of the images and wanted to see if it worked.

By the way, thanks for posting these, I wondered where people were getting them from.

Gabe

 

[JoKeR]

Well Im going to give u all ur wish, Im going to email the Admin of DBD website to give us more information.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi 55

That's a good thing to do.

It's a shame that the important idea of this thread is being ignored. I think that killing any fish by dyeing them is terrible. After all, does it really matter whether it's one percentage or another? IMHO, even one fish dead is too many.

 

[Loupe]

After all, does it really matter whether it's one percentage or another? IMHO, even one fish dead is too many.

I agree, one dead fish to satisfy our "need" for new colurs when there are already so many natural ones is too many.

 

[Opcn]

Inch the reason that the topic of this thread is being ingored is the most of us already agree. I certainly think that these fish are good looking (some of them anyways like the polkadot gourami) but I'm not going to go out and buy a fish that has been abused.
However the legitamacy of those numbers is something we can bebate about If your numbers don't have any semblence of legitamacy then your movement doesn't either.

Opcn

 

[MikeGiangrasso]

Hello all forumgoers of Tropical Fish Forums! If you may not have noticed, I am Mike Giangrasso, the founder of Death by Dyeing.org. I have come to this forum to answer all controvery about DBD propagated on this forum.

First of all, I would like to thank 55 for bringing DBD to this forum's attention.

Do fish feel pain? To answer this question, we must first answer another: What exactly is pain? By definition, pain is "Any uneasy sensation in animal bodies, from slight uneasiness to extreme distress or torture, proceeding from a derangement of functions, disease, or injury by violence; bodily distress; bodily suffering; an ache; a smart. " (Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.). Simply put, pain is a sensation triggered by unpleasent/harmful environmental conditions. Pain is experienced in all vertebrates, including fish, as vertebrates have an advanced neurological system. How pain is comprehended is another story unto itself. No man on the face of this planet knows exactly how fish comprehend this sensation we call "pain". So yes, fish can feel pain. We can be sure of that. We cannot be sure of it's implications on the said fish's experience/state of mentality.

To all of those who find my organization's claims incorrect, invalid, or poorly substantiated, I am obliged to ask you; what evidence petaining to this do you posses? None. I will have you know that the information displayed on Death by Dyeing.org has been verified by a friend of Mike, Mr. Rafael Reyes, a former employee in a dyeing plant under the supervision of Jake Anothony Hope. Rafael has provided DBD with photographs of the dyeing process as well as the 80% statistic. To those who say it is unprofitable to continue a practice with mortality rates so high, the fish are mass produced and the workers underpaid. There has been much research put into Death by Dyeing.org, and I would never knowingly supply the population with invalid information. Those of you who still say I am wrong just because I have one article on the site, I must question you: what does that have to do with it's validity? If you want more articles, then you can write them. The article of the site is not in any way unsubstantiated, and was written by a close friend of mine who did not want his full name disclosed to the public.

To all of you who say it does or does not hurt the fish to be dyed, we will never know. But I sure as hell wouldn't want my skin burned in a caustic solution (which is a lot more painful to us humans then hot water), then jabbed with a pencil-thick needle filled with carcinogenic dyes. If you seriously support the dyeing and mass killing of fish for your own pleasure, then you should not be aquarists at all. Also: if you still wish to argue whether or not it hurts the fish, please conduct an experiment. I would love to hear the results!
Step 1. Purchase thick, carcinogenic dyes
Step 2. Find a pencil-thick needle. Fill it with dye. Jab into your back, skin, and arteries multiple times until you are a nice, pretty shade of flourescent pink. Maybe you can make yourself spotted, or, ooh, maybe you can be RAINBOW!
Step 3. Fill a swimming pool with hydrochloric (stomach) acid. Lace with a sedative and your carcinogenic dye. Go for a 40 minute bath. Ignore any black burns on your skin. It dosn't hurt, remember?
Step 4. Purchase a hamburger. Lace it with dye. Consume. Repeat 3x daily.
Step 5. Asses pain. Record results. Come back here. (If you have survived, of course). Maybe now you will have a different view of the extreme suffering inflicted on your fish.
Disclaimer: (have to put this legally)DO NOT DO THE ABOVE EXPERIMENT! YOU WILL MOST LIKELY DIE!

Sorry, got a little carried away there...Anyway, my point is do not state anything unless you have legitimate facts to back it all up. And certainly do not post on a fish forum your love for abused, grotesque, tortured fish.

To all of you which support my cause, I am sorry you had to read this. Keep up the good work, and happy fishkeeping. If anyone wishes to correspond with me, you can IM me via AIM to the screen name FalsePerc, or email me at [email protected]. All hate mails will be appropriately dealt with.

Oh, an almost forgot: Those of you who say my forum is too small: it has only been running for about 2-3 weeks maximum. As the creators of this forum may know, it takes a lot to create a community, especially a new one. And what does a forum's being Asian have to do with it's population? I recall someone posting about how asian forums have more members then mine. Not only is that racist, but it also makes no sense at all. Please, explain.

Again, thank you all! If anyone still wishes to oppose me, I will gladly debate you, as I feel strongly about my cause.

Mike Giangrasso
Founder
Death by Dyeing.org
[email protected]

 

[MikeGiangrasso]

Just setting this as 'Notify me to all responses'...

 

[JoKeR]

So u got my letter huh

Ur welcome Mike

 

[diVer]

It is still being debated whether fish feel pain, it hasn't been proven fish feel pain and there are some very strong arguments that say they don't. One of the biggest is that fish don't have the part of the brain that senses pain. Just because it looks like pain doesn't mean it is.

I'm still against the dying of fish though.

 

[Opcn]

Those of you who still say I am wrong just because I have one article on the site, I must question you: what the f*** does that have to do with it's validity?

Everything one bad artical destroyes your credibility I'm not saying that dyeing fish is okay I'm just saying your credibility is shot that and thje fact that you use words like F*** in your argument no well educated inteligent people use words like F*** in there arguments

And certainly do not post on a fish forum your love for abused, grotesque, tortured fish.

What is it to you if they like them so long as they don't buy them. We can controll what we like no more than the fish can controll wether they are dyed or not any you are aufuly inconsiderate.

Opcn

 

[Opcn]

It is still being debated whether fish feel pain, it hasn't been proven fish feel pain and there are some very strong arguments that say they don't. One of the biggest is that fish don't have the part of the brain that senses pain. Just because it looks like pain doesn't mean it is.

I'm still against the dying of fish though.

fish FEEL pain they have the sensors even ants FEEL pain. The question is how they PERSIEVE (SP ) ) pain. perseption happens in the brain.

Opcn

 

[diVer]

fish FEEL pain they have the sensors even ants FEEL pain. The question is how they PERSIEVE (SP ) pain. perseption happens in the brain

I personally havn't made a decision as to whether I think fish do or do not feel pain, I'm just saying there are arguments for and against it.

 

[Opcn]

again I say not the question is not FEELING it PERSEPTION

Opcn

 

[MikeGiangrasso]

Yes, opcn, that was my point...

fish FEEL pain they have the sensors even ants FEEL pain. The question is how they PERSIEVE (SP ) pain. perseption happens in the brain.

Well, we agree there, but not here:

Every one bad article destroys your credibility

Please tell me in what way(s) this article is "bad"

What is it to you if they like them so long as they don't buy them. We can controll what we like no more than the fish can controll wether they are dyed or not any you are aufuly inconsiderate.

Why am I inconsiderate? Because I do not advocate the sales of dyed/genetically altered fish like you do? (Note your avatar, GM GloFish = yuck) Please, if you are going to attempt to make a point, at least be less cryptic and elaborate so that I can understand what you are talking about...

If I am inconsiderate for telling people they should not be posting their love for these atrocities on a fish-loving forum, then I would rather be inconsiderate then considerate and stop propagating love for these monstrosities!