If I were to use water direct from well.....

[Byron]

Correct, I'm mixing all three right now. The well water and tank water parameters are in my original post #1 of this thread.
My Tap on the other hand is kind of ever changing because of the "bullet" in the basement. Depending on where we are in the cycle of the added coral. Right now it's been a while since it's been added so it's probably kind of low. It's usually between 6.2 -7.8 (right now probably 6.4). KH 40, GH 75, chlorine 0, ammonia 0, Nitrites 0 and Nitrates barely above 0 but almost not enough to read 10.
***this changing is the reason I want to not use this water anymore and use straight well water if possible***

I agree. Using water that varies in parameters is a real risk as you may not catch the change and this can be significant to fish. Twice I have had my source water alter significantly, without knowing it, and once I lost all my crypts (they added soda ash to raise the pH and two days after the weekly water change all the crypts melted).

 

[thrujenseyes]

For a 6 gallon, I would suggest you stay with the nano fish, like the Boraras species of dwarf rasboras. Ember Tetra would work too.

Ok...that's what I'd been thinking all along but the recent email introducing those little guys caught my eye.

(they added soda ash to raise the pH and two days after the weekly water change all the crypts melted).

soda ash?! Yikes, that just sounds terrible!

 

[Byron]

soda ash?! Yikes, that just sounds terrible!

Turned out fine, it was just the sudden introduction that caught me. Soda ash is a common name for sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) and this is relatively harmless; it has been added ever since 2001 when this crypt melt occurred. I was used to the very soft (7 ppm, or 0.4 dGH) and very acidic (pH was well below 5) source water. The sudden rise in pH from < 5 to 7.0 was the problem for the crypts. The source water here has not changed in my 20+ years of keeping fish until this. The crypts never did recover; it was odd, they had endured the move the year before, during which they were in a bucket of water for several hours that got very cold, then replanted two or three days later, and bounced back from that amazingly. But the sudden pH change from 5 to 7 in one water change was too much for them. All the fish must have managed; none died, and of course I had no idea what had happened until later in the week, by which time the pH was back to normal in the tanks. Soda ash dissipates out of the water fairly rapidly apparently. I have had no pH fluctuationsd since then, with water changes of 60%.

 

[thrujenseyes]

pH was well below 5

Wow...so your source water is below 5?!

The sudden rise in pH from < 5 to 7.0 was the problem for the crypts

I wouldn't have thought plants would react so poorly to a sudden PH change but I don't know why...they are living things also.
This makes me glad that I've been slowly introducing my well water for my plants.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Wow...so your source water is below 5?!


I wouldn't have thought plants would react so poorly to a sudden PH change but I don't know why...they are living things also.
This makes me glad that I've been slowly introducing my well water for my plants.

Crypts are notorious for 'melting' when their water parameters change dramatically. They do usually bounce back, and rather quickly in many cases, but not in all cases. Not sure that crypts are the only ones, but they are likely the most infamous for it.

 

[Byron]

Eaglesaquarium is correct. Some plants will react to changes more or less, but crypts are notorious for the "melt" which can be brought on by factors like changing the light intensity or spectrum, disturbing the plant's roots, changing fertilizers, changes in GH or pH or temperature. Some species are better able to withstand these changes, depending upon the severity, without melting, but most will melt.

I have floating Water Sprite in a few of my tanks, and I have found that sometimes they react to being moved to another tank. They do not normally melt, just obviously weaken for a few weeks. My Water Lettuce does the same, and sometimes it completely dies after being moved.

Similar can be observed in some terrestrial plants too, depending how much the roots are disturbed, the weather conditions, etc.

 

[thrujenseyes]

This IS a crypt...right? Hard to tell here but I'd anchored it's roots onto a piece of wood (behind that hunk of spider wood). (there is also an anubias to the right and the remnants of an old amazon sword to the left).
So this will most likely be my tell tale plant is water parameters go south?

 

[NickAu]

I must be blessed with Crypts, mine were in a tank that was inundated by flood water, Washed , sat in a bath full of water for 2 weeks replanted in a new tank and the only loss I has was when I broke a few leaves when planting them.

My crypts are over 25 centimeters tall.

 

[thrujenseyes]

I must be blessed with Crypts, mine were in a tank that was inundated by flood water, Washed , sat in a bath full of water for 2 weeks replanted in a new tank and the only loss I has was when I broke a few leaves when planting them.

My crypts are over 25 centimeters tall.

holy cow!

 

[NickAu]

This tank is 36 CM tall,I do add 1 milliliter of Seachem flourish every week.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Hard to ID from the pic on my phone, but it looks like a large java fern to me.

 

[NickAu]

but it looks like a large java fern to me

It looks nothing like my Crypts.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

This picture shows a java fern... and really makes the rhizome visible.
When you said the "roots" did you mean a horizontal green stem (rhizome) and blackish-brown hairs (holdfasts)?

Crypts roots are very much like what you would expect from a terrestrial plant... whitish and much thicker than 'hairs'. These should be buried in the substrate, whereas a java fern's rhizome must be in the water, which is why it is recommended to tie it on to wood, rocks, etc.

Also, noting the blackened areas on the leaf, have you ever seen smaller little leafs and a bit of hair show up there in the past? That's how java ferns reproduce. They produce, plantlets, on leaves, which then die and release the plant let to go attach itself elsewhere... in addition to the mother plant growing a longer rhizome and more leaves. The plant can be propagated by cutting off pieces of rhizome with a few leaves and separately large plants that way.... much like anubias can be.

 

[Byron]

Agree with others, the plant in the photo in post #52 is a Java Fern, Microsorum pteropus.

Cryptocoryne plants do have a rhizome but it is often not noticed, but it is present. It can and should be buried along with the smaller true roots growing from it. The leaves on a crypt will grow from a single end of the rhizome in a rosette. Java Fern on the other hand will grow leaves and the very fine black roots from all along the (usually) thicker rhizome, and this rhizome must not be buried in the substrate. The true roots will grow down into the substrate, or remain in the water, doesn't matter which.

Not all Cryptocoryne species are as temperamental as others, and in individual situations plants may or may not melt at any change in parameters, light, etc. So you cannot use the crypts to judge water issues. I have moved crypts from one tank to another with no noticeable effects, but at other times they have melted and recovered weeks later. The one time with the pH change they did not fully recover; a few did, but they were never as strong and over the next several months they died completely.

Byron.

 

[thrujenseyes]

This picture shows a java fern... and really makes the rhizome visible.
When you said the "roots" did you mean a horizontal green stem (rhizome) and blackish-brown hairs (holdfasts)

Ah ha! Yes, that's definitely it! and yes to the blackish brown hairs!...they're out of control even thought there aren't that many leaves on the plant (but they are big).

have you ever seen smaller little leafs and a bit of hair show up there in the past? That's how java ferns reproduce. They produce, plantlets, on leaves, which then die and release the plant let to go attach itself elsewhere

I've never seen the smaller leaves with bit of hair....but I will keep my eyes peeled for it now that I know that's how they reproduce!....that's pretty darn neat!

can be propagated by cutting off pieces of rhizome with a few leaves and separately large plants that way.... much like anubias can be.

That I did know because it's a rhizome plant and I know that's how I propagate my anubias.

the very fine black roots from all along the (usually) thicker rhizome, and this rhizome must not be buried in the substrate.

I did know that as I posted a pic of it a long time ago when I bought it and you and someone else told me to anchor it to something above the substrate, which I did.
But for some reason all this time I thought it was a crypt. I'm sure no-one told me that and I just mixed things up in my head.

Agree with others, the plant in the photo in post #52 is a Java Fern, Microsorum pteropus.

Good to know...lets see if I can remember that! I'll put it in my fish journal now so I don't ask this again in 7 months.

Not all Cryptocoryne species are as temperamental as others

Ahhhhh.

So you cannot use the crypts to judge water issues.

Yeah, I'm sure using anything other than actual test kits is a bad idea.
But when you get into a good groove with things you get a little cocky and don't test as much.
....well....I do anyway.