Ick

[mlee0332]

I use quick cure all the time. It will stain your sealant blue...

If you use it BEFORE the white spots start to fall off of the fish, then you can treat for 2 weeks or until all spots r gone, but @ least 2.

You use 1 drop per 1 US gal. of water. UNLESS you have any tetras. Then 1 drop every 2 US gals. of water.

Hope you have lots of luck and separate all of the fish w; ich from the ones without and to be safe, treat the com. tank with quick cure for 2 days...

 

[Mariah]

Thank you everyone for your advice

 

[reg2k2]

And water changes before each treatment?
you do NOT want to change water every treatment

Rid-Ich does suggest daily wc's---but it's a combination of mal.green/formalin. I believe Maracide is copper-based? At any rate, pretty sure it has different active ingredient.

it is absolutely necessary to treat for much longer than 5 days........that does nto even cover the entire life cycle of ich....you need to raise the temperature above 85 degrees

The heat is meant to speed up the lifecycle...tho I personally would not go above 80-82F. This should reduce the lifecycle duration to about 5days.

it is NOT absolutely necessery to treat for 2 weeks

Agreed. Best to follow the instructions and, hopefully, one treatmt should take care of it.

 

[abstract]

with all do respect it doesn't matter how many tanks you have...or how much experience...science is science...sure the white spots may be gone off of the fish, but fact is, it is still present in the substrate (actually suspended just above the substrate). 5 days will treat VISIBLE signs of ich, but does not mean it is irridacted from the aquarium which means given specific conditions (i.e. stressed fish), it will resurface.

Three days ? where did three days come from?  Yes the tomite stage last three days yet ALL can be killed in 5.

the three day tomite stage is the only time it is treatable, that is where that comes in.

If you research ich you will better understand the parasite. 

being that you already acknowledged the 12-16 day lifecycle i do not know what more there is to research..science tells me if something lasts up to 2 weeks, that treating for less than a week may kill some of it, but not all...don't insult my intelligence - i have obviously researched this well

And water changes before each treatment?
you do NOT want to change water every treatment because you will make matters worse. The tank is already going through changes with the meds and the parasite. A 50% water change is recommended AFTER treatment is complete and NOT during. By doing so you will be removing the medication that was put in prior. You will also be removing more and more of the MUCH needed bacteria.

yes, you do water changes to remove the ich cysts that are in the substrate, thus cutting down on the amount of possible tomites that will occur...i do not agree that 50% is needed, but you should def. vaccuum your gravel somewhat. depending on what treatment they use, the water changes are recommended - if they go formalin/malachite green meds a water change should def. be done - this treatment can be compared to chemoterapy for humans.... however, going with the copper based treatment appearantly you do not need to change that much water , but again, removing some debris from substrate will help with the problem...

furthermore, we all know that a very, very minimal amount of beneficial bacteria reside in your substrate so vacuuming will not effect your biological balance ...and, anyhow, depending on what treatment you are using, your beneficial bacteria count is being affected by those

again, i do not mean to start battles here but from all of the information i have put together from people i know, and the internet i have come to the conclusion that although you may have seemed to treat the problem in less than a week it still remains...i just don't believe it is beneficial to anyone to let them think that no matter what the issue can be cleared up in 5 days - it is kind of like saying, from my experience it is ok to house male bettas together - science and the average expereiences of other enthusiasts just contradicts that

sorry for the rant

one little edit: oh, and the temperature thing - it has been proven that ich cannot survive above 85 degrees - that is why many people who are not into using meds just use salt and high temp ... i was always weary of going that high before but never experienced a single death...

also, i dont know if it has been mentioned yet or if the directions on the meds recommended it or not, but i found that removing all decorations, etc helped keep the concentration of meds in the water high...otherwise they just soak up the meds kind of like the aquarium sealant/silicone tends to do

 

[FishEnthusiast]

I have used Maracide. It worked in 5 days with an increase in temperature. It's active ingredient is Malachite Green and Chitosan. It proports to treat the fish not the water. Apparantly "biospheres technology transposts the medication directly to the skin where it is needed." This is directly from the back of the bottle. I did not retreat after 5 days but monitored the tank to make sure all the spots were gone.

I have also cured ich with heat and salt. If I am not mistaken the poster can not use salt as she has scaleless fish. I had my tank at 88 for three days with three tablespoons of salt per 5G of water. I monitored my fish very closely for 2 weeks. The ich was GONE in three days. Once the visible spots fell off, no new ones appeared. I also did not lose any fish using this treatment. I believe this is due to 2 factors. Ich is proven to be intolerable to salt. Also temperatures above 85 do not kill the ich, but it does prevent them from reproducing. Therefore, when the spots fell off, they did not reproduce. One caution if you are going to try only heat, some strains of ich have been found to tolerate and reproduce in temperatures as high as 90!

I have done lots of research and I don't suggest anyone try my methods without doing their own research as well. I do know that in the future I will use the salt/heat method as I feel it stresses the fish a lot less than medication.

 

[abstract]

I do know that in the future I will use the salt/heat method as I feel it stresses the fish a lot less than medication.

i agree.

 

[Danny - the lost soul---]

You know, thats why I stopped visiting the site. An opinion / experience is just that. What did you prove by trying to qoute what i said?
The bottom line is, EXPERIENCE is the best teacher. Not what you read and hear. Don't get me wrong though because alot of good info is learned by what we read and hear. Yet, don't try to argue a point that is based on experience with a non experience argument such as what you read / hear online. How much of that is research ? How much is experience ? By who ?

On the other hand I have dealt and keep in touch with many. When you start to deal with zoos, biologist, reasearchers and avid fish keepers them argue a point.

How many ich outbreaks have you tretaed? How long have you kept fish for?
In the future to avoid a flame war speak from experience and not what you think / hear.
When I suggested the Maracide and said 5 DAYS there was no need to try and qoute me nor try and prove other wise. As I stated there are MANY meds for ich and NOT all are used the same.

Though once again > 5 DAYS < with Maracide and the ich is gone. Not 12 -16 days. Which is what the tomite cycle is.Sorry about the rant my fellow fishie lovers. Yet, he how thinks he knows all really knows nothing.

In the future those who may need the extra advice / help feel free to email me and I will help if poss. I will reframe from tring to answer question or problems since we already have an expert on board who does his reasearch and thinks what they read and hear is best than first hand experience.

Bottom line 5 days with Maracide.... No need to water change every dose...... ??? Very minimal bacteria resides inyour aquarium??? Correction, the bacteria is what keeps your aquarium healthy. And thats is why you DO NOT change water daily before you medicate. Yes some medications are VERY harsh and can / affect your biological bacteria. While MANY meds will not. Thats is why I suggest the MARICIDE. Many years of fish keeping and trying new / diff. meds. EXPERIENCE / Trial and error... not books nor what you read hear. Is were the best advice comes from. Please DON't take offense folks because ALOT of good advice is givin which is learned through what you read and hear. But, to argue on the bassis of I hear or I read this. Is just finless.....



Mariah,
How are the fish doing ? Haven't heard so I assume that the Maracide worked. I did read that after the 5 days the ich seemed to be almost gone. Thats a good sign.

 

[abstract]

i choose to quote certain points to avoid confusion ... much easier on the eeyes than putting together an incoherent attack at an individual...

bottom line is you must know everything from your experiences, and I must know nothing from mine..so you should stop reading now if youre convinced of that...

actually i have treated very few cases of ich in my over 10 years of fishkeeping (almost half my life - no kidding - but i didn't see the point of discussing length of fishkeeping experience, number of tanks, or size of, ehm, pleco here) since i keep my tanks in top condition... of those cases i did have to treat i normally use high temps and salt (as i recommended originally) because we all know that introducing foreign medications leads to more problems than it helps (which is possibly why you have to treat so many outbreaks) ...and never had a fish casuality due to ich or ich treatment until meds were used...that is why i am an advocate of treating very conservatively and changing water often (not to mention that removing water removes parasite )

the only "expert on board" here is you, who proclaims to know everything from your experiences and could potentially lead to future deaths for this fishkeeper and others who may read this thread...

the only thing i proclaim to know as fact is the lifecycle of this parasite...which based on everything i have read, everyone i have spoken to, etc (which altogether adds up to experiences - i don't care what you say but owning fish and treating disease firsthand is not the only type of experience)....

but who knows, after all of your years of trying new meds, treating diseases, and chasing the ghosts that you can't see you have found your answer..maricide and 5 days...

and i have found mine....heat, salt (yes, even with cories, plecos and loaches in small amounts, OH NO), and time....who is wrong here? only the person that believes the first thing they hear and doesn't experiment with it for themseleves...

Very minimal bacteria resides inyour aquarium???  Correction, the bacteria is what keeps your aquarium healthy.  And thats is why you DO NOT change water daily before you medicate.

correction, you should actually read my posts before you attempt to attack me (see below)...

furthermore, we all know that a very, very minimal amount of beneficial bacteria reside in your substrate so vacuuming will not effect your biological balance ...and, anyhow, depending on what treatment you are using, your beneficial bacteria count is being affected by those

again sorry for my rant and feel free to edit/remove my post but this pissing match is ridiculous and something i cannot believe i am part of...i mean there are thousands of posts and suggestions on this board concerning ich and the overall consensus seems to be that 5 days is just not enough time ...maybe we all need as much experience and biological expertise as you....but who wouldn't rather be safe than sorry when it comes to our fish??

...i've said it once and i'll say it again that this is the same as telling a person who has less experience than you that it is ok to house male bettas together provided they have enough hiding spots, since you have had it work out for you...

it may have worked (or appeared to have worked) but the goal of controlling ich isn't to remove the spots off your fish and keep it that way...it is to get the parasite count under control and then improve water quality for your fish so that their immune systems can handle it - and if you can do that w/o meds then you have really learned something over the years....

but in this case it looks like mariah took both of our advice and used maracide and will redose again so i'm sure her tank will be fine

EDIT: done responding to your attacks danny so please direct the rest to pm...

 

[Danny - the lost soul---]

What attack? My point got across. And I NEVER claimed to be an expert. And those who know me will tell you I DON'T claim to know everything. I just as yourself leearn new things and tips daily. Thats what makes this hobby so enjoyable for myself as a avid fish keeper. But, experience tells alot. And over the years my advice has NEVER killed fish because I do not suggest water changes daily when using medications... enough said have fun qouteing me some more....

As for bad advice that will eventually kill your fish. try reading your post again pal. I see the ich was taken care of as I said. 5 DAYS...




If you feel the need to continue to see who can piss the farthest then do so. I got better things to do with my time. Other than try to tell someone there advice is bad advice...
But again good luck .....
Danny

ps. someone please end this .... if you still feel the need to qoute me do so.

 

[abstract]

correction you do claim that you are all knowing and your special, magic cure is the end all - and all the knowledge out there is miniscule when it comes to maricide (you sound like you WORK for the company lol)...nothing in any of my posts would kill fish, but meds do, plain and simple...

funny these types of posts are all about the last word all of a sudden, since you didn't actually say anything constructive in your previous post (except that pointing out doing water changes when treating with meds will apparently lead to fish deaths )...only tried to attack my advice and experience, again - pushing a product that isn't necessary...

anyhow, if you did actually read these posts her problem was not cured after 5 days....she said that the problem seemed to be improving after only a couple days, but she was going to redose again...never did they say the problem was completely cured in 5 days..

the thing that gets me the most is that you never asked about water parameters or took a chance at looking at her tank stock...doesn't it seeme a little crowded for a 20 gallon? shouldn't something ELSE be done before throwing in meds in this case? i mean there are quite a few fish in there, which all have ich mind you, and no one ever asked for the water parameters...let's just jump the gun and throw in medicine and hope for the best instead of addressing the issue at hand...maybe the fish weren't in ideal condition thus developed ich...

i'm sure you'll get your last words in again danny but eventually this will prolly just get closed since no one is being helped by two different trains of thought clashing...

point is you claim not to be an expert, yet you shoot down the views of others and attack their intelligence and sources of information (who, mind you, most likely have more knowledge than you could ever put together through your own experiences)...you try to say you've done this longer, had more tanks, and more fish - so you must be trying to prove something... all my first post was saying is to be safe with the treatment and redose...you could've simply agreed with that (as you did later), but instead you took it as an insult, posted a useless rant , and advised that i should ignore anything i have ever heard, read, or experienced since it was wrong and your miracle method is the only way to approach this efficiently ...sounds like an expert's opinion to me so don't try to make right now by saying your posts were never attacks....for some reason you took offense to me quoting what you said and you took it to the level of bitching about it....pathetic....and judging your type i'm sure you will get your last words in again on this post instead of directing them to my PM as requested ...again you are obviously trying to point out my shortcomings to the entire community ..so when is it gonna stop Dr. Danny?

 

[Mariah]

Danny and everyone else - Its funny that I just saw this post this morning and was going to reply that the fish seemed to be doing well BUT I went downstairs to check on them and 2 were dead - one of my swords and a RN tetra.

The upside down cats still have some ick on them and one of my other tetras has like one dot and same with my cherry barbs. I am going out to the store today to get some more medication (maracide) and retreat

 

[Danny - the lost soul---]

Grow up ! who felt the need to qoute and contrdict???
I gave advice as we all do. Only some of us feel the need to try and belittle others opions. I don't push meds, and only suggest them / recommend them when they are needed. What next ? My opion caused the fish to die. Funny how those who have used this particular med have had good results.

So if you do feel the need to continue trying to see if you can peee further than me go ahead... peee on... Just take it to my PM as you asked or better yet, just agree to disagree. The only one looking like a fool here is yourself. So I hope you have a good day...
danny

ps.
When properly used meds DO NOT kill fish. Bad advice and poor fish keeping do.
Sure you will feel the need to reply once again. If so, please do it away from the board this is getting way out of hand and others shouldn't have to listen to 2 grown fish act like guppies.

[email protected]

 

[FishEnthusiast]

To the two that insist on fighting, you both need to grow up.

To Mariah, I am sorry you lost some fish. I am going to give you some advise. You do not need to take it. Or you can try some of it to suit your needs. Only you can see your fish, and only you can decide if what you are doing is working.

Did you turn the temp up at all? If not, please do it now. Don't raise it too fast, cause a sharp increase in temperature could really stress your fish, maybe 2 degrees every 6 hours or so. Lower your water level a bit to increase the surface agitation, thus increasing the oxygen in the tank. If you have an airstone, that will help too. If your fish can handle it, take the temp up to 88. Anything under 85 only speeds up the life cycle of the ich. Over 85 and most strains of ich cannot reproduce. Do not add salt. It will harm your scaless fish.(I think someone told you that already). You can use Maracide with increased heat, but be careful. Medication lowers the oxygen content in your water, so does heat. Make sure there is lots of aeration in the tank. DO NOT DO WATER CHANGES WHILE YOU ARE TREATING. This is very important with Maracide. It will not be effective at all. If you have decorations in the tank, take them out. You don't need them in while you are treating, and I have found that they impede the medication from working.

I am not an advocate of using meds, but sometimes they are needed to get rid of the ich. I have tried soooooooo many different kinds. The only kind that worked for me was Maracide. And no I do not work for them. I have tried Nox-ich, Quick-Cure, Super Ich Plus, Maracide, Copper safe and more whos names I don't remember.

Once your ich is gone, we can sort out the stocking for your tank. It is kinda crowded. Good luck, I am rooting for you.

 

[mlee0332]

I dont want to get involved in the fight, but I have treated 3 cases of ich (not many i know). The first one when I treated, I lost my WHOLE STOCK b/c I followed the med's directions. It said will cure ich in 2 days. I treated 2 days and in a week the ich was 30x worse and completely resistant to the med. Now when I notice ich i separate the sick ones and I treat for 2 weeks. Never lost one since I have done that.


My most recent case was a very small one. 1 spot on 1 fish. when I noticed it I removed him and began treating him it took nearly 1 week and half to get rid of the spot and I went an extra day or so just to be safe. But then again it could be b/c of a pitiful med

Mariah, I am very sorry you lost your fish. I hope everything turns out okay for you and your friends in the end!

 

[NinjaSmurf]

When my pictus got ich (tank wasn't cycled I didn't know better!!!) I was told by a very trusted lady who owns this little fish store (she's very, very good) to turn up the heat to around 80, 81, do a 50% water change for the next week. Within two or three days the ich was gone, and it did not pass on to my guppies or molly. I had added some Melafix just because I figured it couldn't hurt as well...

I read your post though, and you say the tank was only running a week before you got the fish? Was it cycled? I'm not sure if it's lack of sleep but I wasn't clear on that part. From what I understand fish usually get ick when they are stressed out, that's when they are affected by it (sinces it's always in the water anyways. Kinda like if your stressed out a lot you get sick easier)

Best of luck!