Ick

[KittyKat]

I've got the white spot treatment so i'm going to put it in tonight (do a 50% change before etc.) when i changes the water to keep the ammonia down should i add more treatment in as i have no choice but to do water changes until my prime arrives as i can't find any right now

Before you start, are you 100% sure that it's ich? This is quite an accurate photo of how it looks: http/www.tails.co.nz/white%20spot%20neon.jpg

I recommend that you do a 90-95% water change (almost "down to the gravel") with temperature matched water before starting the treatment because it will be at least a day during the treatment that you can't do a water change. Also, increase the tank temperature to 28-30 C for the duration of the treatment because the treatment will kill whitespot only in its freeswiming stage of live, so it makes sense to speed up its life cycle.

Which medication do you have? I would probably do 95% water change, treat for ich and repeat every 24 hours (in other words, removing all the medication from the water once per 24 hours by doing water changes). You will need to do one more treatment, followed by a water change, after all the spots are gone.

 

[Skittle13]

I've got the white spot treatment so i'm going to put it in tonight (do a 50% change before etc.) when i changes the water to keep the ammonia down should i add more treatment in as i have no choice but to do water changes until my prime arrives as i can't find any right now

Before you start, are you 100% sure that it's ich? This is quite an accurate photo of how it looks: http/www.tails.co.nz/white%20spot%20neon.jpg

I recommend that you do a 90-95% water change (almost "down to the gravel") with temperature matched water before starting the treatment because it will be at least a day during the treatment that you can't do a water change. Also, increase the tank temperature to 28-30 C for the duration of the treatment because the treatment will kill whitespot only in its freeswiming stage of live, so it makes sense to speed up its life cycle.

Which medication do you have? I would probably do 95% water change, treat for ich and repeat every 24 hours (in other words, removing all the medication from the water once per 24 hours by doing water changes). You will need to do one more treatment, followed by a water change, after all the spots are gone.

Yeah i am sure as i can be it is ich, it is small white lumps over the fish like little grains or salt.

I've already started the treatment and only did a 50% change, maybe more since but i replaced the amount of meds i took out. I turned up the temperature but i will raise it even higher to what you said.

The only thing i'm worried about is the ich getting resistant due to the water changes and the ammonia (bit hard to read) is getting close to 0.25 and the water was changed this morning =/

Right your instructions match up and are more understandable to the ones on the bottle >.< but it says repeat treatment ever 48 hours (it's King British White Spot Control-malachite green based)


It has been in 24 hours (though with the water changes i do not know if it counts) and needs to be in for another 24 hours but i need to do a water change due to the ammonia reaching 0.25 (as i did not start with you recommended 95% change). The only thing i can do for now until you reply is carry on and do the water change (as the ammonia could hurt the fish)and replace the medicine taken out until the treatment period (the other 24 hours) is completed as i'm guessing the ich can become resistant if i do not follow through with it. If you wish me to start completely again i will wait for the message and i will do so, if not i will carry on with the above as i can not do much else.
How ever (when you say) i start the next treatment period i will follow your instructions

One question if the ammonia gets really high (or what you consider as high like 0.25) during the 48 hours period should i change the water and add back in the medicine i took out or do something else?

The rest of the information you gave me i understand and have read up on via research and most of it was on the bottle.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

One question if the ammonia gets really high (or what you consider as high like 0.25) during the 48 hours period should i change the water and add back in the medicine i took out or do something else?

Yes, it's very important to control that ammonia, so water change every time it looks like it's even getting close to 0.25. Top up with medicine as you suggest, so if you replace 25% water then add 25% medicine back in when you do the water change.

 

[Skittle13]

One question if the ammonia gets really high (or what you consider as high like 0.25) during the 48 hours period should i change the water and add back in the medicine i took out or do something else?

Yes, it's very important to control that ammonia, so water change every time it looks like it's even getting close to 0.25. Top up with medicine as you suggest, so if you replace 25% water then add 25% medicine back in when you do the water change.

Yeah ok.. thought that was the best thing to do as i do not want to leave it in there (to kill the fish) or really start the treatment again. I'm sort of got my nurse's head on right now and i wouldn't want to cut treatment short due to resistance =/ unless i had to (if one of your guys said as you lot know a lot better than i do!) I'll follow Kat's advice for the treatment and thank you for saying about the ammonia because i already changed that water haha.

 

[KittyKat]

It won't make the treatment less effective if you water change and redose every 24 hours instead of every 48; you will just use twice as much medication. Normally I am against wasting medication, but in this case, it is important that you keep ammonia as close to 0 ppm as you can, as the other person said.

 

[Skittle13]

It won't make the treatment less effective if you water change and redose every 24 hours instead of every 48; you will just use twice as much medication. Normally I am against wasting medication, but in this case, it is important that you keep ammonia as close to 0 ppm as you can, as the other person said.

Thank you for getting back to me sure i'll keep up what i am doing then.

 

[Skittle13]

It won't make the treatment less effective if you water change and redose every 24 hours instead of every 48; you will just use twice as much medication. Normally I am against wasting medication, but in this case, it is important that you keep ammonia as close to 0 ppm as you can, as the other person said.

sorry for the double post..

There seems to be maybe a start of fin breakage on his anal fin =/ it has gone slightly see-through (the colour is still there ) but shows when he is in front of the light where it connects to the body. It is recent and hope it is nothing to do with the treatment

Could the rise in heat (i've only got to 27c so far as i am doing it gradually) cause the bacteria (fin rot) multiply and do worse damage? I've looked around and i can't seem to get a good answer, if so maybe i should lower the temperature back down to be on the safe side and just treat the ick longer?

 

[KittyKat]

Both of the problems you are seeing are down to poor water quality. The way to prevent them from happening again is to finish cycling your filter, then to keep the water quality good. For the moment, the more dangerous of the two is the ich: compared to it, the finrot (a blanket term for all diseases which cause the fins to disintegrate) is insignificant. The ich is also likely stressing your fish on top of what the ammonia would be doing. Once you get Prime or similar, the dechlorinator will help reduce the stress of ammonia to the fish and will help prevent further problems until the filter is cycled.

As far as I know, the temperature does not have that much effect on the bacteria (although you are right that in theory, the bacteria will multiply fastest at their optimum temperature, which I would expect to be on the upper side of tropical).

At 29 C, I would expect a mild case of ich to be gone for good (so including the extra 1-2 days of treatment after signs are gone) within 4-5 days. At lower temperatures, I have heard that it can take up to two weeks or so, although I have no experience with lower temperatures.

By far the best medication I have found for finrot is eSHa 2000… it is expensive, but quite concentrated and has a long shelf life. Finrot should be treated at "normal" temperatures (whatever that is for the specific species of fish).

 

[Skittle13]

Both of the problems you are seeing are down to poor water quality. The way to prevent them from happening again is to finish cycling your filter, then to keep the water quality good. For the moment, the more dangerous of the two is the ich: compared to it, the finrot (a blanket term for all diseases which cause the fins to disintegrate) is insignificant. The ich is also likely stressing your fish on top of what the ammonia would be doing. Once you get Prime or similar, the dechlorinator will help reduce the stress of ammonia to the fish and will help prevent further problems until the filter is cycled.

As far as I know, the temperature does not have that much effect on the bacteria (although you are right that in theory, the bacteria will multiply fastest at their optimum temperature, which I would expect to be on the upper side of tropical).

At 29 C, I would expect a mild case of ich to be gone for good (so including the extra 1-2 days of treatment after signs are gone) within 4-5 days. At lower temperatures, I have heard that it can take up to two weeks or so, although I have no experience with lower temperatures.

By far the best medication I have found for finrot is eSHa 2000… it is expensive, but quite concentrated and has a long shelf life. Finrot should be treated at "normal" temperatures (whatever that is for the specific species of fish).

I'm keeping up with the water changes and my Prime arrived today and out of lack of knowledge about mixing things (i was told never) i will wait until tomorrow night when i do the big water change to get rid of the meds i will change the dechlorinator to prime. Hopefully that will help with his stress.

He seems to be very different now.. he was itching a lot (the spots are gone but i am continuing) and still a bit now, such as a flick of the tail, but he is also flaring in between it all (tbh i'm now confused between the behaviours now but he is displaying). I got him some bloodworms for once and a while to get some more protein into his diet.

After the ick treatment is done i can then get rid of it completely and start on the fin rot with the aquarium salt as his fin rot seems to have calmed down for now but there are signs of redness on the tips =/

He is on the mend and i'm doing about 1-3 (50%) water changes depending on the ammonia a day.

 

[Sailfin Zach]

Both of the problems you are seeing are down to poor water quality. The way to prevent them from happening again is to finish cycling your filter, then to keep the water quality good. For the moment, the more dangerous of the two is the ich: compared to it, the finrot (a blanket term for all diseases which cause the fins to disintegrate) is insignificant. The ich is also likely stressing your fish on top of what the ammonia would be doing. Once you get Prime or similar, the dechlorinator will help reduce the stress of ammonia to the fish and will help prevent further problems until the filter is cycled.

As far as I know, the temperature does not have that much effect on the bacteria (although you are right that in theory, the bacteria will multiply fastest at their optimum temperature, which I would expect to be on the upper side of tropical).

At 29 C, I would expect a mild case of ich to be gone for good (so including the extra 1-2 days of treatment after signs are gone) within 4-5 days. At lower temperatures, I have heard that it can take up to two weeks or so, although I have no experience with lower temperatures.

By far the best medication I have found for finrot is eSHa 2000… it is expensive, but quite concentrated and has a long shelf life. Finrot should be treated at "normal" temperatures (whatever that is for the specific species of fish).

I'm keeping up with the water changes and my Prime arrived today and out of lack of knowledge about mixing things (i was told never) i will wait until tomorrow night when i do the big water change to get rid of the meds i will change the dechlorinator to prime. Hopefully that will help with his stress.

He seems to be very different now.. he was itching a lot (the spots are gone but i am continuing) and still a bit now, such as a flick of the tail, but he is also flaring in between it all (tbh i'm now confused between the behaviours now but he is displaying). I got him some bloodworms for once and a while to get some more protein into his diet.

After the ick treatment is done i can then get rid of it completely and start on the fin rot with the aquarium salt as his fin rot seems to have calmed down for now but there are signs of redness on the tips =/

He is on the mend and i'm doing about 1-3 (50%) water changes depending on the ammonia a day.

If you have ick then you should get this stuff called super ick cure.

 

[KittyKat]

He is on the mend and i'm doing about 1-3 (50%) water changes depending on the ammonia a day.

That's great news it sounds like he's on the mend and the flaring is a sign of improving health usually. Keep the ammonia low and in some weeks, all your problems will be solved!

Prime is not considered a medication, just a dechlorinator, so you can mix it with medications all you like. You are right that medications should not be mixed usually.

 

[Skittle13]

He is on the mend and i'm doing about 1-3 (50%) water changes depending on the ammonia a day.

That's great news it sounds like he's on the mend and the flaring is a sign of improving health usually. Keep the ammonia low and in some weeks, all your problems will be solved!

Prime is not considered a medication, just a dechlorinator, so you can mix it with medications all you like. You are right that medications should not be mixed usually.

Yeah hopefully ^^

Yeah i was just worried about mixing dechlorinators that is all, so i am guessing that's fine. Im doing the 95% change tonight and changing to prime.. it is nice to see improvements in him, he is back to flaring again which i am sure he will do for the rest of the day (i've tried to stop him once and a while but he finds a new spot and carries on)

I'm just wondering whether what has developed recently is still finrot, his anal fin seems to have became rather see-through near his body and in direct light (not overly strong) his body near the area is also see through. The colour comes out as red to me but it is hard to work out. The red/clear bit is getting larger towards the tips of that fin. I it finrot, or something else.. it seems like blood its a definite change from before.

He sort of looks like this:
http/www.bettainfo.com/wp-content/uploads/betta_septicemia2.jpg
but definitely not as bad

 

[KittyKat]

That could either be his true colour coming out or bleeding rays…

 

[Skittle13]

That could either be his true colour coming out or bleeding rays…

I'll keep an eye on it then hopefully it's just to do with the fin rot and i'm putting in the prime tonight

Happy New Year!