Ick

[Skittle13]

I am in a fish-in cycle and as well as having fin rot i noticed little white grain on his head today which was not there yesterday furthermore on closer inspection he has some on his fins too. I have noticed that he is staying close to the decor in the tank and the glass.. i'm not sure if he is itching and to be honest i think he might be.

I'm getting aquarium salt has an estimated delivery around the 31st december and onwards due to shipping as i have heard this is good for fin rot but isn't it also for white spot moreover should i use the same amount or more?

Also he is on the low side of his temperature range at 25, so as he is sick should i raise it to kill the parasite?

Gosh this fish is mounting up with problems the poor guy

As it is going to tank sometime for the aquarium salt to come could i just raise the temperature for now and i am guessing normal salt is a no-no?

p.s the ammonia is under 0.25 due to a recent water change i haven't tested yet and he is in a tank (25 litre) on his own with filter and heater.

 

[KittyKat]

I am in a fish-in cycle and as well as having fin rot i noticed little white grain on his head today which was not there yesterday furthermore on closer inspection he has some on his fins too. I have noticed that he is staying close to the decor in the tank and the glass.. i'm not sure if he is itching and to be honest i think he might be.

Fish staying close to décor can be a sign of stress. Since you are doing a fish-in cycle, what are your water parameters, and are you using a liquid test kit?

I'm getting aquarium salt has an estimated delivery around the 31st december and onwards due to shipping as i have heard this is good for fin rot but isn't it also for white spot moreover should i use the same amount or more?

What species is/are your fish? Salt treatment is not suitable for all. Can you not just go into an LFS? Or ask someone from BTFC (Bristol Tropcal Fish Club) if they have any medication? If you are not able to treat your fish before the 31st, I would say that there is a very high chance that it can die.
Whether salt is any good for fin-rot depends on the species of fish and the degree of infection. Proper medications are normally more reliable for serious cases.

Also he is on the low side of his temperature range at 25, so as he is sick should i raise it to kill the parasite?

What species? 25 C is on the upper side of what I consider to be perfect temperature for the average tropical fish. Increasing the temperature will speed up the life cycle of the parasite, which means that it will breed faster. Do this only *after* you add anti-whitespot medication to the tank.

As it is going to tank sometime for the aquarium salt to come could i just raise the temperature for now and i am guessing normal salt is a no-no?

Do NOT raise temperature before you add medication. Normal table salt is not good, but rock sea salt (and only pure, 100% rock sea salt) can be used.

p.s the ammonia is under 0.25 due to a recent water change i haven't tested yet and he is in a tank (25 litre) on his own with filter and heater.

I suspect that your fish is having health problems because of stress caused by ammonia. Remember that *any* ammonia is enough to cause *some sort* of health problems (from what I have observed, prolonged exposure to 0.25 ppm is enough to kill the fish or to make it more susceptible to disease and for it to have a short life span). I really, very strongly recommend that you keep ammonia as close to 0 ppm as possible and never let it start coming close to 0.25 ppm, and that you use a double dose of dechlorinator which will "deal" with ammonia.

 

[Skittle13]

I am in a fish-in cycle and as well as having fin rot i noticed little white grain on his head today which was not there yesterday furthermore on closer inspection he has some on his fins too. I have noticed that he is staying close to the decor in the tank and the glass.. i'm not sure if he is itching and to be honest i think he might be.

Fish staying close to décor can be a sign of stress. Since you are doing a fish-in cycle, what are your water parameters, and are you using a liquid test kit?

I'm getting aquarium salt has an estimated delivery around the 31st december and onwards due to shipping as i have heard this is good for fin rot but isn't it also for white spot moreover should i use the same amount or more?

What species is/are your fish? Salt treatment is not suitable for all. Can you not just go into an LFS? Or ask someone from BTFC (Bristol Tropcal Fish Club) if they have any medication? If you are not able to treat your fish before the 31st, I would say that there is a very high chance that it can die.
Whether salt is any good for fin-rot depends on the species of fish and the degree of infection. Proper medications are normally more reliable for serious cases.

Also he is on the low side of his temperature range at 25, so as he is sick should i raise it to kill the parasite?

What species? 25 C is on the upper side of what I consider to be perfect temperature for the average tropical fish. Increasing the temperature will speed up the life cycle of the parasite, which means that it will breed faster. Do this only *after* you add anti-whitespot medication to the tank.

As it is going to tank sometime for the aquarium salt to come could i just raise the temperature for now and i am guessing normal salt is a no-no?

Do NOT raise temperature before you add medication. Normal table salt is not good, but rock sea salt (and only pure, 100% rock sea salt) can be used.

p.s the ammonia is under 0.25 due to a recent water change i haven't tested yet and he is in a tank (25 litre) on his own with filter and heater.

I suspect that your fish is having health problems because of stress caused by ammonia. Remember that *any* ammonia is enough to cause *some sort* of health problems (from what I have observed, prolonged exposure to 0.25 ppm is enough to kill the fish or to make it more susceptible to disease and for it to have a short life span). I really, very strongly recommend that you keep ammonia as close to 0 ppm as possible and never let it start coming close to 0.25 ppm, and that you use a double dose of dechlorinator which will "deal" with ammonia.

Thank you for replying so quickly, he is a new betta fish from a pet store and was in bad shape with signs of stress. I have done a 50% water change before the 0.25 reading and i will do another soon tbh as i am getting worried about him. I will do this with double the declorinator like you said.

The aquarium salt seemed ok from other people on the forum as they had nothing to say about it =/

will these treatment be ok?
http/www.petsathome.com/shop/interpet-whitespot-100ml-25605
or something along those lines?

I've just registered on that forum to see what i can do..

i will go to the shop as soon as possible

 

[KittyKat]

Salt is a suitable treatment for Bettas. I do not know the exact dose, so you should do some research about that.

I really strongly recommend that you do closer to a 90% water change with temperature matched water at least once per day for the near future.

If I remember correctly, there was no chloramine in my water supply when I lived in Bath, so even if you do not have a dechlorinator which deals with ammonia (like Prime by Seachem or Stress Coat by API), then you should still be fine with any normal dechlorinator. [Tap water everywhere used to contain only chlorine, but recently some areas have started using chloramine too. Every dechlorinator works fine for chlorinated water, but chloramine + dechlorinator = ammonia, so if one's water contains chloramine, then one should use a dechlorinator which makes the ammonia not harmful while the filter deals with it.]

See if anyone at BTFC can donate some mature media for your filter, that is the quickest way to get out of the fish-in cycle situation.

 

[Skittle13]

Salt is a suitable treatment for Bettas. I do not know the exact dose, so you should do some research about that.

I really strongly recommend that you do closer to a 90% water change with temperature matched water at least once per day for the near future.

If I remember correctly, there was no chloramine in my water supply when I lived in Bath, so even if you do not have a dechlorinator which deals with ammonia (like Prime by Seachem or Stress Coat by API), then you should still be fine with any normal dechlorinator. [Tap water everywhere used to contain only chlorine, but recently some areas have started using chloramine too. Every dechlorinator works fine for chlorinated water, but chloramine + dechlorinator = ammonia, so if one's water contains chloramine, then one should use a dechlorinator which makes the ammonia not harmful while the filter deals with it.]

See if anyone at BTFC can donate some mature media for your filter, that is the quickest way to get out of the fish-in cycle situation.

I have looked around about salt (teaspoon per 5 gallons) but as it is coming too late i'll use it for the fin rot and keep the water clean
For now i am looking up in the area for white spot meds but the definite earliest is the day after boxing day but ill ring to see if another shop nearby will be open on the 26th. No response from the forum yet but i wasn't expecting anything to at least boxing day or the day after from them.
The dechlorinator i have got works for chloramine (says on the label).
Due to these PWC and you wanted 90%, i will do another 60% to make up for it due to me doing two 50% changes already.

 

[KittyKat]

I have looked around about salt (teaspoon per 5 gallons) but as it is coming too late i'll use it for the fin rot and keep the water clean
For now i am looking up in the area for white spot meds but the definite earliest is the day after boxing day but ill ring to see if another shop nearby will be open on the 26th. No response from the forum yet but i wasn't expecting anything to at least boxing day or the day after from them.

Oh, and the Interpet anti-whitespot stuff should work… the only time my fish have had whitespot, I used the medication by Sera.

The dechlorinator i have got works for chloramine (says on the label).

I think all dechlorinators will do chloramine, the questions are, does it work on ammonia and does your tap water contain chloramine?

Due to these PWC and you wanted 90%, i will do another 60% to make up for it due to me doing two 50% changes already.

That sounds good 50% + 50% + 60% water changes are equal to an 85% one. To calculate, do 1-(1*.5*.5*.6)=0.85

 

[Skittle13]

I have looked around about salt (teaspoon per 5 gallons) but as it is coming too late i'll use it for the fin rot and keep the water clean
For now i am looking up in the area for white spot meds but the definite earliest is the day after boxing day but ill ring to see if another shop nearby will be open on the 26th. No response from the forum yet but i wasn't expecting anything to at least boxing day or the day after from them.

Oh, and the Interpet anti-whitespot stuff should work… the only time my fish have had whitespot, I used the medication by Sera.

The dechlorinator i have got works for chloramine (says on the label).

I think all dechlorinators will do chloramine, the questions are, does it work on ammonia and does your tap water contain chloramine?

Due to these PWC and you wanted 90%, i will do another 60% to make up for it due to me doing two 50% changes already.

That sounds good 50% + 50% + 60% water changes are equal to an 85% one. To calculate, do 1-(1*.5*.5*.6)=0.85

Tbh right now if a shop is open i'm getting their white spot treatment, ill get that one or the King British one but can it wait til the 27th?

I looked it up and i can't seem to find anything on the chloramine in bristol that i understand, i've got a filter boast for ammonia right now called "Love Fish: Filter Boast" but nothing that locks in the ammonia as i was told by friends to use PWC and that bottle. I'm so confused

 

[KittyKat]

Well, it is possible to do it with just water changes, but the risk is much higher to the fish and requires probably double the work on your part. I will try to explain the points in more details:

- *Any* ammonia, even amounts which are not detectable by a home test kit, is enough to cycle a filter
- *Any* ammonia is harmful to fish, the extent to which this is the case depends on the species, the concentration of ammonia and the time that the fish is exposed to it
- Serious exposure to ammonia results in higher susceptibility to diseases and early death of the fish
- For cycling, I recommend that ammonia is kept as close as possible to 0 ppm and never reaches 0.25 ppm, even 0.25 ppm in the long term can kill fish
- Some dechlorinators (Prime, Stress Coat, etc) make ammonia less harmful to fish, while still allow the filter to use it for the cycle. So is there any harm in reducing the harm to the fish?
- Some dechlorinators (Prime) also make nitrite less harmful to fish

 

[Skittle13]

Well, it is possible to do it with just water changes, but the risk is much higher to the fish and requires probably double the work on your part. I will try to explain the points in more details:

- *Any* ammonia, even amounts which are not detectable by a home test kit, is enough to cycle a filter
- *Any* ammonia is harmful to fish, the extent to which this is the case depends on the species, the concentration of ammonia and the time that the fish is exposed to it
- Serious exposure to ammonia results in higher susceptibility to diseases and early death of the fish
- For cycling, I recommend that ammonia is kept as close as possible to 0 ppm and never reaches 0.25 ppm, even 0.25 ppm in the long term can kill fish
- Some dechlorinators (Prime, Stress Coat, etc) make ammonia less harmful to fish, while still allow the filter to use it for the cycle. So is there any harm in reducing the harm to the fish?
- Some dechlorinators (Prime) also make nitrite less harmful to fish

Yeah i can get some stress coat or prime instead as im sure i've seen at least stress coat around though in my case prime probably would be better so i'll keep my eye out when i go for the meds. I sort of knew where you were coming about the ammonia but i'm stuck not being able to buy anything else right now as the shops are closed. It's good to be informed that a small amount of ammonia can cycle a tank which i was miss informed about via research

Can the change or dechlorinator and meds wait to tuesday though? I would really like to go out now and buy things (like i usually do tbh) but will it be fine to leave it til tuesday as no shops are open? I'm going to ring around a few shops that say they are either open/didn't mention on their website/have the product i want tomorrow when maybe something will hopefully be open. I tried today but they don't even have an answer phone informing when they will be open

Oh and could you have a look at these:
http/mixdown13.deviantart.com/art/Velvet-or-white-spot-275738866
http/mixdown13.deviantart.com/art/Ick-275744151

There is a small white speck right on top of his head (in line with the back of his eye) that is the size of the spots though in the flash of my camera he looks maybe a bit bronze/gold (could it be the flash doing that?)the spots are through his fins as well but the camera doesn't pick up on it. Could it be something other than white spot like velvet? In the light there is a slight line of a scar that seems black near his eye but it comes up red in the camera =/

 

[KittyKat]

It's good to be informed that a small amount of ammonia can cycle a tank which i was miss informed about via research

Well, the filter will cycle slightly faster with higher concentrations of ammonia, but it will still cycle with low concentrations too.

Can the change or dechlorinator and meds wait to tuesday though?

Something like *shudder* Pets at Home might be open tomorrow, if there's one in Bristol… if you already have any dechlorinator, you should try to do water changes every day and switch to a better one whenever you can. Since you do not have any treatments, it will just have to wait. To be honest, my recommendation would be to sort out the water quality, then see if the health problems fix themselves in a few days.

There is a small white speck right on top of his head (in line with the back of his eye) that is the size of the spots though in the flash of my camera he looks maybe a bit bronze/gold (could it be the flash doing that?)the spots are through his fins as well but the camera doesn't pick up on it. Could it be something other than white spot like velvet? In the light there is a slight line of a scar that seems black near his eye but it comes up red in the camera =/

To me, as he looks in the photo, it does not look like there is anything wrong with him. If he does have ich, then large water changes will help reduce the symptoms it by removing the parasite in its freeswimming stage (which is the point when the medication kills it too and this is why large water changes are important for treating ich). I have never seen velvet in 15 odd years of fishkeeping (mostly in UK), so to me, it's a very unlikely possibility.

If I really had to take a guess at what that is on his head, I would say that he just caught a scale on something. Keep in mind that some types of iridescence can look similar to disease and your lighting is very likely different from that at the shop.

Do you have a heater and everything?

 

[Skittle13]

It's good to be informed that a small amount of ammonia can cycle a tank which i was miss informed about via research

Well, the tank will cycle slightly faster with higher concentrations of ammonia, but

Can the change or dechlorinator and meds wait to tuesday though?

Something like *shudder* Pets at Home might be open tomorrow, if there's one in Bristol… if you already have any dechlorinator, you should try to do water changes every day and switch to a better one whenever you can. Since you do not have any treatments, it will just have to wait. To be honest, my recommendation would be to sort out the water quality, then see if the health problems fix themselves in a few days.

There is a small white speck right on top of his head (in line with the back of his eye) that is the size of the spots though in the flash of my camera he looks maybe a bit bronze/gold (could it be the flash doing that?)the spots are through his fins as well but the camera doesn't pick up on it. Could it be something other than white spot like velvet? In the light there is a slight line of a scar that seems black near his eye but it comes up red in the camera =/

To me, as he looks in the photo, it does not look like there is anything wrong with him. If he does have ich, then large water changes will help reduce the symptoms it by removing the parasite in its freeswimming stage (which is the point when the medication kills it too and this is why large water changes are important for treating ich). I have never seen velvet in 15 odd years of fishkeeping (mostly in UK), so to me, it's a very unlikely possibility.

If I really had to take a guess at what that is on his head, I would say that he just caught a scale on something. Keep in mind that some types of iridescence can look similar to disease and your lighting is very likely different from that at the shop.

Do you have a heater and everything?

Ah well lower ammonia will have to do for now until the betta is better.
Haha i've looked at pets at home (the one that i bought him from funnily enough..) and they aren't open until the 27th, Cadbury garden centre is but doesn't seem to sell anything but the stress coat and that's a long way to travel for me but i'll ring 2moro to see about any type white spot meds. Another shop nearby has both but i'm not sure when they open so i'm going to ring them tomorrow as well

The water sparkling clean right now in looks but the liquid water tester still show a slight green tinge nearing to .25 for ammonia which is really annoying but i've done so many water changes and the fish is not showing any signs of poisoning (except for the twitching due to ick..poor guy)and is swimming around the tank quite happily. I did another 50% change again just a moment ago and arg it's still the same but i think i will do one tomorrow morning unless advised otherwise.

I'll keep the PWC up but the ammonia is definitely not giving up without a fight..

The photos don't show much except the white spot (sort of sticks out from the side) but does look like salt and there are ones in his fins especially the small ones at the front, i did check again just in case i went mad but he is very interactive and it's hard to get him to face or even catch him facing away from me.

Yeah the tank has a heater and i check it with a thermometer i have at the other side of the tank..stays at 25c never moves tbh unless i get the PWC temp slightly off (but that's normally a little bit higher).

By the way i never said thank you for helping me out yet.. and of course a Merry Christmas

 

[KittyKat]

Hi, no problem Just a thought: can you test your tap water for ammonia before and after you dechlorinate it?

 

[Skittle13]

Hi problem Just a thought: can you test your tap water for ammonia before and after you dechlorinate it?

I've been testing them throughout each day.. about four times but what i can remember mostly after the change but i do clean the tubes out with tap water and dry them off.. are you thinking cross contamination from the previous tests?

How do you clean the liquid tests tubes?

P.S
Oh i did a massive clean on the test tubes.. even with vinegar which i have seen via research gets rid of residues. I then cleaned them out with tape water A LOT
I did another test on my tank water and tap, the colour was the same but annoying light green but not enough to be 0.25 but not 0 (for the tap water). Looks like i sourced the problem about the ammonia, so i'm going to get Prime and hopefully detox the water until my filter can deal with it after the cycle. If thats right anyway

 

[KittyKat]

Oh i did a massive clean on the test tubes.. even with vinegar which i have seen via research gets rid of residues. I then cleaned them out with tape water A LOT
I did another test on my tank water and tap, the colour was the same but annoying light green but not enough to be 0.25 but not 0 (for the tap water). Looks like i sourced the problem about the ammonia, so i'm going to get Prime and hopefully detox the water until my filter can deal with it after the cycle. If thats right anyway

If your undechlorinated tap water has trace ammonia, and the reading is the same post-dechlorination, then your tap water just has trace ammmonia and no chloramine. If your pre-dechlorination tap water has no ammonia, but post-dechlorination has trace to 0.25 ppm ammonia, then your tap water contains chloramine. If pre-dechlorination reading has trace ammonia and post-dechlorination has a higher ammonia reading, then tap water contains ammonia and chloramine.

At any rate, Prime will solve this problem: although you will still get an ammonia reading when you test, the ammonia will be harmless to fish for at least 24 hours (as long as it doesn't start rising), so all you need to do is a water change once per day or whenever the reading starts rising.

It's a shame that you don't have any 0 ppm ammonia water to test for comparison as I have occasionally mistaken a 0 ppm reading for trace just because I was expecting some trace ammonia.

 

[Skittle13]

Oh i did a massive clean on the test tubes.. even with vinegar which i have seen via research gets rid of residues. I then cleaned them out with tape water A LOT
I did another test on my tank water and tap, the colour was the same but annoying light green but not enough to be 0.25 but not 0 (for the tap water). Looks like i sourced the problem about the ammonia, so i'm going to get Prime and hopefully detox the water until my filter can deal with it after the cycle. If thats right anyway

If your undechlorinated tap water has trace ammonia, and the reading is the same post-dechlorination, then your tap water just has trace ammmonia and no chloramine. If your pre-dechlorination tap water has no ammonia, but post-dechlorination has trace to 0.25 ppm ammonia, then your tap water contains chloramine. If pre-dechlorination reading has trace ammonia and post-dechlorination has a higher ammonia reading, then tap water contains ammonia and chloramine.

At any rate, Prime will solve this problem: although you will still get an ammonia reading when you test, the ammonia will be harmless to fish for at least 24 hours (as long as it doesn't start rising), so all you need to do is a water change once per day or whenever the reading starts rising.

It's a shame that you don't have any 0 ppm ammonia water to test for comparison as I have occasionally mistaken a 0 ppm reading for trace just because I was expecting some trace ammonia.

I've got the white spot treatment so i'm going to put it in tonight (do a 50% change before etc.) when i changes the water to keep the ammonia down should i add more treatment in as i have no choice but to do water changes until my prime arrives as i can't find any right now