Ich - Probably Done Something Wrong!

[dbanbery]

First off, a big hello to all, i have had my eye on this forum for a while, and while i haven't become a user until now, i have been reading etc on a variety of stuff to do with setting up my tank.

first off, i'll "set the scene" so you can see what ive been doing

bought the tank, 19L with 3 stage filtration and aireator, 25w heater. set it up and added food on the day of setting it up with water/ornaments etc.

the water was treated with "tetra aqua easy balance" and "API drop pH" [the second one was because we have a low pH in this part of the country - i had the water tested by a shop then bought a test kit]

before i added fish the pH was 7-7.5 and the nitrate levels were in the green. the tank had been running for about 3-4 weeks.

temperature after being on full for the cycle i let it settle at 22-24 degrees before adding fish.

added 4 neon tetras. all good. no drama. bit of a timid bunch, with one "explorer" that played around for a while. no fluctuation in nitrates after 3 weeks. gradually got a bit more showy after probably being stressed from the transit. these were added into the tank with acquarium water in the usual method [leave it unopened in the tank for 30-40 mins then open the bag, add some acquarium water, then after another 10-15 mins release them carefully into the tank]

a few weeks later, added another 4 black neon tetras - much the same as before. they shoal together and mess about with each other as the kids do in the playground. nitrates went slightly, but then after another 2 weeks they didnt change again.

then, we added a siamese fighter.
he was fine with the others, gorgeous looking thing he is, and he is called tony - the others are called the majestic masters of mayhem [google it !]

anyways, i have noticed tonight that tony is not well. he is being reclusive - hiding by the heater or in the house. i have also noticed that the black neons are sprinkled with salt like spots. white spot or ich or ick etc.

now, after reading up i have begun to increase the temperature slowly.

if i increase it to full, will this work [bear in mind full is 28 degrees Celsius]


will this kill my fish? where do i stand with salt treatment? i would rather do the salt method or the temperature raise without fish antibiotics or copper sulfate or whatever.

everyone chip in with comments, tell me what i have done wrong [apart from not quarrantine Tony]

if i can cure this without any casualties i'll be happy. i am planning to get a bigger tank - i think i am at the limit of fish from my calculations.

 

[Davo86]

Hi Welcome,

Firstly i must ask do you really mean 19 Litres and not 19 Gallons ?
If the tank is 19L then I'm afraid it is only a suitable size for a siamese fighter and nothing more

Have you tested for nitrites or ammonia?

tbh i'm not sure if the tank has been cycled correctly and I would suspect that the water stats won't be good, due to the fact that the tank is very overstocked.

you really need to get a full test kit as soon as possible so you can keep an eye on the stats,

once stats are known you may need to do a number of water changes to get the levels back up to standards, once that is done it would be best to start treating with something like WS3 or Protozin,

Heat will also help but remember if you raise the temp (as you have done) you need to increase the amount of aeration in the tank, (as oxygen levels will be reduced)

 

[Forestpisces]

Agreed with Davo86

You are severely overstocked and those fish are not suitable tank mates for a betta(siamese fighter) The tank is just big enough for the betta alone, Ich is best treated with a whitespot treatment, increase the temp and aeration (add an airstone) follow the directions on the meds and continue the treatment for at least 3 days after all physical signs have passed to ensure the water bourne form of the disease is irradicated.

 

[dbanbery]

yes, i meant 19 litres!

i did my calculations and i thought that it would be okay with those numbers - obviously not!

first time i have heard that they arent suitable tank mates - i have done some reading. They havent been fighting or nipping each other, and they seem to get on just fine.


on reading the comments i really dont feel like i have a clue what i'm doing now. i have read so many different things about so many different aspects of this that its v.confusing.

i already have an airstone that has been running from setup.

not tested for ammonia or nitrites as i thought that pH and nitrates was good enough. obviously not. getting the other kits tonight. i did a nitrate test last night and it came out as orange which is the worst yet but according to the spec sheet on the kit it is still acceotable - although for me it needs reducing.

do i need another airstone?

so many questions - extremelty confused. feel awful that i am making them suffer.

 

[K-Holed]

Welcome to the TFF.

Of the four things most people test for, I'd suggest that pH and nitrate are uaually (at least in the beggining) the least useful. Unless your pH is very low or high, it's really not with messing with it. As for the nitrate, this comes towards the end of your biological cycle. Before you get any nitrates in your tank, yo9u will first see a rise in Ammonia and then some time after, a rise in nitrite. Only once these two have shown themselves,will you finally start seeing a rise in nitrate, as this is the result of the breaking down of the other two. Ammonia > nitrite > nitrate.

As for your fish stock, lots of people are going to have opinions on whether they're suitable tank mates etc. etc. so I won't comment in that area. One thing I will add though. Neon tetras tend to fair better in more mature systems.

For now, I'd recommend reading the information on fish-in cycling in the beginners section and go from there.

Kind regards

Jimi

 

[dbanbery]

hmm,

probably a school boy error on my part with the nitrate testing kit - i thought it would be useful. i got the pH kit because i was told our water in this area was naturally acidic, which i was also told was OK for the tetras but not OK for the fighter.

i'll do some more reading and do some water changes after posting my test results and see how i get on.

just one thing which i cant seem to find out anywhere - what is the best temperature for my tank?

 

[OldMan47]

You need to get started with the water changes, as you have already surmised. As soon as possible, you also need to start treating for ich. It is most likely what is causing the salt shaker look on your neons. I have a link in my signature area called "ich info" that will put you on the right path to treating ich. When you do water changes, don't forget to dose any water that gets put back into the tank so that you don't interrupt the ich treatment.

 

[dbanbery]

right,

i did a water change on friday after posting on friday, and then on saturday morning i came down and we had lost 3 of the black neons - one i watched die when i came down whil counting.... then i started looking round for the others, and they were both caught in my fake plants. one was actually being pecked at by the fighter. i thought initially that he was the culprit, but on doing some further recon [after starting the protozin treatment] it seems that he is not helping, rather than being the culprit of the deaths. the ones who died were the worst hit. i did some tests yesterday and have done some more today and the water hasnt changed - these are the results:

pH 7.0 - perfectly suitable and this hasnt changed in the slightest since setup

ammonia - 2.4 looking at the graph on my test kit against the pH this is fine - 0.01 in the green.

nitrite - 0.3 the chart says this is a safe amount of nitrite - and it hasnt changed in 24 hours so it would seem fine.

nitrAte - 25mg/l "acceptable for sensitive freshwater fish, reduce for delicate marines"

now, there are still 2 with whitespot all over them, and i didnt think that the last black neon would last to today - so i'm thinking the treatment is working.

as an aside we went out and bought a bigger tank yesterday, a 60 litre Juwel 70 setup. as we have always wanted a community tank and ours is too small we aim to keep the 19 litre as a quarrantine OR just with tony [the betta splendens as i have been reading] on his own. this tank will be better than the other and hopefully not as easy to overstock. now i have a tank running i can use some filter media out of the old one to start off my cycle in the new one. however, i need to set it up first, and i'm in two minds whether to do that or not with the advent of new carpet in the living room soon - i dont want to have to move the tank and upset them all! plus its a large tank - not easy to move!

 

[dbanbery]

right,

another died yesterday, which brings me down to 3 neon tetras.

good news is that the ich has stopped spreading with the treatment and water changes, another change tonight - going for a 50% with replenishing the medication

lessons learnt here as i thought the black neons and neons would school, but they occupy different levels of the tank - hence why the black neons didnt school and got a bit of bullying from the betta when it arrived. they are also not as hardy as the neons too. i know this is probably common knowledge to a lot of fish keepers but i am new to this!

anyways, hopefully i can see this out, and the rest of the neons can ride out the rest of the high temperature until the main tank is running, when i can hopefully move them. i just worry that they have got NTD as their colour is faded, and they looked a bit bloated after i gave them some daphnia yesterday [bump underneath in middle] apart from that they seem ok, with no laboured breathing and a few spots on fins which i'm hoping will go away. if NTD does kill these i dont think i'll be getting any neons for a while - and when the next tank is cycled properly and i am adding fish i'm not going to add the small ones first! that is after careful planning of what species to put with what..