Ich Dissease Really Need Help!

[Tamii]

Hi ,
 
I recently bought some new fish in to my tank,from my LFS, and a couple of weeks after,they have now got white little dots on them,one guppy has already died and I think my betta will too,hes lost all his colour and half of his tail,al my fish have it except the platies.the neons are completely covered.I look on the internet,about how to cure this dissease,and it came up with making the temp in the tank higher to 30 º C for 10 days,ive done this for 5 days already and none of them are showing any signs of improvement,in fact they look worse.I really need HELP and ADVICE about how to combat the dissease and getting  my betta especially back to health..
 
Also,dont know if this has anything to do with it,but my tank is full of mini snails,dont know how they got there although i suppose they must of come from the water of the LFS...Any advice how to get rid of them.?
 
Thank u soo much 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Just raising the temp only speeds up the life cycle of the parasite, it doesn't cure it.
 
What fish do you have in the tank, besides those mentioned.... You have betta, neons, and....
 
 
 
A salt treatment at high temps can be very effective, but isn't recommended for certain species of fish that are more sensitive to salt.  Another option is ich meds - Any brand that claims to cure ich would be a start.  Sometimes a second brand has to be used, as more and more ich is being resistant to some of the meds.  Try API Ich-cure.  Follow the directions to the LETTER.  But, before starting the treatment, I'd suggest doing a 50% water change with an emphasis on sucking up stuff off the gravel.  The parasite falls off the fish as a trophont and multiplies on the substrate, then bursts forth with thousands of tomites that are free swimming to attach to a fish.  It is only the free swimming variety of the parasite that can be killed by meds or salt.  
 
You will want to add an airstone to the tank, as high heat, salt and meds all lower the oxygen carrying capacity of the water.  
 
 
(BTW, I'm only suggesting you use EITHER salt OR meds, not both at the same time.)
 
Also, be sure to continue the treatment for 7 days after you see the last sign of ich on a fish.  As stated, the lifecycle is the key and just because there's nothing on the fish doesn't mean that there's nothing in the tank.  Completely the treatment for a week ensures you got them all.

 

[ArronP]

Hi.  I'm far from a fish expert, but I recently cleared up a nasty outbreak of ich in my 90 gallon.  I managed to nip it with a combination of elevated water temperature and Kordon brand 'Ich Attack".  Make sure you use the herbal formula.  The non herbal formulas use malachite green which from what I understand can be harmful to some tropical fish.   
 
The herbal formula directions indicate a double-dose is safe for bad outbreaks.  I used one full treatment in the morning and half treatment in the evening until it was under control, then used only one dose daily for the remaining time.  If this is wrong, please someone correct me... but I also took into account decor volume when adding water treatment.  My 90 gallon TRULY only holds about 80 gallons after decor and substrate, so I treated for only 80 gallons of water.  I did lose a few fish in the process, but they were hammered by the parasites and there probably wasn't much that could've been done for them anyway.
 
Like the post above says... make sure you continue treatment even after the spots are gone.  The medication directions say 3-4 days, but I used it for the full 7 (only 1 dose per day) after the last spots vanished.  So far, no repeats. 
 
Good luck.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Temps above 30C can cure ich !!! The parasite will be killed that way. buttttt : The fact that it doesn't work and you mention a loss of a fin is a sign that i doubt it is Ich. Nit every white spot is ich !!! Can you place a pic and give more information about your tank, waterreadings aso.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

If you are using high temps adding an air stone is helpful as there is less oxygen in warmer water (not to cure ich but to help you fish get enough oxygen during treatment).
 
 
Also, you said these fish are new to your tank... have you added them to a mature tank that has been running for some time (a cycled tank) or have you added them to a new tank?  If new, what process did you use to set up and prepare your tank before adding fish?

 

[the_lock_man]

Temps above 30C can cure ich !!! The parasite will be killed that way. buttttt : The fact that it doesn't work and you mention a loss of a fin is a sign that i doubt it is Ich. Nit every white spot is ich !!! Can you place a pic and give more information about your tank, waterreadings aso.

 
I agree with parts, and not with others.
 
Raising the temperature increases the lifecycle speed of the protozoa. What you are relying upon here is that the protozoa can't find a fish to infect by the time their increased metabolism makes them conk out. To me, that's not a reliable way of treating the problem. The protozoa are not tolerant of salt, it kills them, as do the medications (my personal favourite is Protozin by Waterlife).
 
But I wholeheartedly agree that this may not be ich, because ich does not generally cause fish to lose a fin.
 
As DD suggests, please post up photos of the betta and the neons - it might be that the betta has ich AND finrot.

 

[Tamii]

Hi, 
 
thank you for the answers ... this morning I woke up and had look at my tank,and another guppy bit the dust,but then i looked a bit closer and there was 2 guppy fry,swimming around!! first time mommy of two guppy!! Anyway,the betta has now lost nearly all of his colour,and breathing very heavily.. I have bought some treatment,and I have applied it in my tank,but was wondering,should I Remove all the fish from that tank and put in another with no substrate in the bottom,just the fish,with the treatment,or should I leave them in that tank,with treatment.
 
I have removed the fry and placed in a 20 L tank with very little amount of the treatment,as it said you can use it as a preventative measure aswell.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I think it would be useful if you answered some of the question in the above posts since it sounds like possibly multiple things are going on with your fish.  A picture would be a bit help as well.  It is unclear from your initial post whether or not this is a brand new tank or a cycled tank... if brand new you might also have high ammonia causing some of these illnesses and symptoms as well as having a problem with ich.
 
If you can place the fry into a cycled, heated tank that would be best as their best chance is to have a very low dose of meds.

 

[CoryLover95]

The raised temperature speeds up the life cycle of the parasites, doesn't cure it.  The reason we do this while treating with meds is because the parasites die sooner while the meds are killing the eggs/some of the actual parasites.
I would isolate the fry and put them on a low dose of meds, as PrairieSunflower says.  (I use QuICK Cure for my ich problems.) Then treat the main tank with a dose (if they're all adult it can be higher dosage; read the package) because right now there are lots of ich eggs in your water.  Vacuum the floors of the tanks daily during treatment in the fry tank to remove eggs.
I hope you get all this cleared up!!

 

[DoubleDutch]

Disagree with that. The biological way to get rid of Ich is the use of higher temps (above 30C). Agree with faster metabolism as well, so when meds are used (which I prefer!!) higher temp will be of use as well. Still this isn't Ich (alone) greetz Aad

 

[DoubleDutch]

Temps cure Ich http/www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/index.php?topic=25141.0

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Here's the problem with using the temp method alone:
 

Some fish don't tolerate medication and are as likely to die through its use as they are from the effects of the disease. In this case there is another treatment which is quite effective (but not 100% effective) against all strains of white spot. It is also quite stressful to some fish. This treatment involves raising the temperature to OVER 30C i.e 32C and this needs to be done accurately because if the real temp is only 29.8C then the white spot will worsen dramatically.
Once the temperature hits 30C most strains of white spot parasites cannot multiply and so the disease slowly dies out. Once the fish have been clear of all white spot for a few days this treatment can be stopped.

 
 
The OP didn't raise the temp high enough, but I think you are right that there's more going on than "just" ich.

 

[Tamii]

Ok...I have looked up on the internet and it appears that the betta has dropsy,I dont know what to do? Shall i move all the other fish to a new tank and medicate there ..Cause my main tank has soooo many little snails which i dont know how the hell they have got there!!
 
 
Thanks

 

[the_lock_man]

If you move the betta, you may well be moving the ich parasites too, so that tank would also need treating. A fish with dropsy is 99.9% certain to be terminally ill, I have only ever come across one claim of a fish recovering from dropsy, and I was not convinced that the fish was suffering from dropsy anyway. Some people say where there is life, there is hope, but I would euthanise. Dropsy is the failure of the fish's internal organs. If you could post a photo up here so we can check for you, then you'll be double certain.
 
The snails have almost certainly come in as hitchhikers on plants.
 
I hope I'm not offending you, but you have asked for help in this thread, and a number of people have offered it, but asked questions of you. You have not answered those people's queries. If you want help, please help people to help you. It's incredibly frustrating for them if you don't.

 

[Tamii]

Hi ,
 
Will respond to answers now... In my tank I have(after deaths):2 female guppies and 1 male guppy,2 platies,1rummy nose,6neon tetras,4 black neons,and the dying betta ...oh and 3 more little fish which i cant remmember the names.
 
I dont have water readings at the moment,the tank is 20 gallons (85L), I have 4 fake plants and one half alive one and just stones at the bottom.Its filtered 24h and with heater and i have an air curtain at the back.
 
I cycled the tank for a week before I got the fish,and added to the water a water conditioner and have just added today the treatment for ich.
 
I am going to set up my other tank with no bottom just heater and medicated water with the air curtain and put boiling water in the tank to kill any other parasites (without the fish ofcourse)...The fry seem to be doing fine,found a third little one in the tank,I have checked thoroughly and dont think there are any more now !
 
And see how that works out,Hopefully that will cure the fish and put them back in health!