I Really Messed Up, Help My Fishies!

[raggy]

This probably isn't the first time soething like this has been posted here. Basically, I got a 10  gallon tank and I had a male betta. I read that you can put them with small school of tetras.
 
Basically I got the tank, put gravel in it and some plants... and then dumped all the fish in there within the next few hours. ..  . .yes I did that.  After two days the tetras start getting sucked up by the filter. I first thought that the filter was too strong, maybe cuz it was close to the glass.  But how come this didn't happen the first couple days when  set up the tank??  The woman at petco told me its cuz my fish are sick. But how could this happen when I just set up the tank?!?!?! Back to the lab; I had learned about ammonia, nitrate and nitrite . . . but a little too late. : /
 
I don't mean to make this post ubber long. I need help deciding on what to do with the fish. The ammonia level was at 0.25-0.5 (yellow with very little green) I have had my tank for 5 days now, only 4 of the 7 tetras remain, the betta seems happy as ever lol (despite the crisis happening). From what I read its cuz the lack of bacteria in the filter to turn ammonia into nitrite and then the nitrite to nitrate.  I added some fish stuff that promotes the growth of the bacteria, the filter is starting to get brown.  I stopped feeding the fish yesterday and I did a 20% WC, but today I think ill do a 40% or something big. 
 
But here's where it gets (more) crazy:  This morning I checked up on my fishies. .  . the tetras have Ick.
 
What do I do? I was thinking about putting my Betta back into his 2.5 gal.  and Idk where to put the tetras. . .
 
HALP!!! Pls help quick I want to resolve this today!

 

[fluttermoth]

to the forum, raggy

Yes, you've done everything wrong, but it seems like you've also done a lot of reading and have learnt a lot too, so well done on that!

Ich often develops when fish are stressed or sick for other reasons (healthy fish can usually resist infection), so it's no surprise your fish have it after being in an uncycled tank.

There's no point separating fish out for treatment, tbh; the lifecycle of the ich parasite is quite complex and not all stages are on the fish, so you need to treat the whole tank and all the occupants anyway.

You'll need to use a medicine for ich from your LFS (local fish store). Follow the instructions to the letter, but you'll also be having to do water changes, so bear that in mind, as you'll have to redose the medication after each water change. There are a lot of medication-resistant strains of ich around, so if the first medication doesn't work you might have to try a different one.

Best of luck with everything!

 

[TallTree01]

Ok, I'm gonna put this nice and easy because it seems like youre lost.

1) put the betta and any tetras who don't have ich in the 2.5 gallon.

2) read the ' very important document ' in my signature. Particularly the fish in cycling.

3) if youre too lazy to do that I'm gonna summarize it, it basically means, if there is ammonia in the tank, do massive water changes, some people have to do more than 2 a day.

4) in the 2.5 gallon, do the fishin cycle

5) in the 10 gallon, raise the temperature up a bit. ich hates warm temperatures. I'm not sure on how much but if you put a little bit of salt in the tank the ich will hate that.

6) do the fishin cycle I. The 10 gallon.

7) good luck!

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Is it possible that you would be able to return the fish and then do a fish less cycle? (The link for a fishless cycle is in my sig)

Otherwise, you're going to have to be doing ALOT of water changes, 50% daily for at least a week until you can see that the ammonia is being processed.

0.25 -0.5 ammonia isn't too high but it's more than preferred!

You say the filter is starting to get brown...do you have some filer floss in there which is turning brown? If filter floss came with your filter then it probably also came with carbon which isn't needed until you want to remove medication from the water, I would recommend that you take it out and just leave the other filter media in there. If the filter only has filter floss and carbon then leave it in there.
I don't know anything about ick so I'll let others advise on it.
Also, to the forum

 

[raggy]

Thanks guys, okay so if I separate my betta and put him in his old 2.5, the filter won't have the bacteria in it. Is this okay for the betta?  Probably is, but what about the tetra?  wont the same issue happen again in the 2.5 gal?
 
So I add the medicine to the 10 gal, and continue to cycle it until the ammonia and nitrite is 0? then I can add the fish? But the fish that do have ich will cyle with the 10 gal?

 

[TallTree01]

The 2.5 will have the same problem, but it's better than catching ich from the other tetras.

Yes to the last 3 questions you asked as well.

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

I would like to point out that, from personal experience, medications for Ich fall to the more effective, and safe treatment of salt + heat.  I have tried a couple Ich medications and they work slowly, if not ineffectively.  Salt and heat has never failed me yet.  I implore you not to buy chemical medications for Ich.
 
Bring the heat up to 82-84 degrees.  TallTree has mentioned salt, and the dosage can be 1 tbsp per 5 gallons.  I usually go for 3-4 tbsp per gallon when I treat Ich.  Do not raise the temperature before adding your salt/meds because that will increase the life cycle of the Ich, but will not kill it.  Heat alone will not kill Ich unless the temperature is 90+ degrees.

 

[raggy]

Is it possible that you would be able to return the fish and then do a fish less cycle? (The link for a fishless cycle is in my sig)

Otherwise, you're going to have to be doing ALOT of water changes, 50% daily for at least a week until you can see that the ammonia is being processed.

0.25 -0.5 ammonia isn't too high but it's more than preferred!

You say the filter is starting to get brown...do you have some filer floss in there which is turning brown? If filter floss came with your filter then it probably also came with carbon which isn't needed until you want to remove medication from the water, I would recommend that you take it out and just leave the other filter media in there. If the filter only has filter floss and carbon then leave it in there.
I don't know anything about ick so I'll let others advise on it.
Also,

to the forum

 
The filter came with the 10 gal. The filter is white with the black rocks in it.  And in the other slot in the filter there is this black sheet with holes in it. is that the floss? Should I take it out?
 
Also after I cure the tetras from ich what do I do to get the medication out of the water? How and Why?

I would like to point out that, from personal experience, medications for Ich fall to the more effective, and safe treatment of salt + heat.  I have tried a couple Ich medications and they work slowly, if not ineffectively.  Salt and heat has never failed me yet.  I implore you not to buy chemical medications for Ich.
 
Bring the heat up to 82-84 degrees.  TallTree has mentioned salt, and the dosage can be 1 tbsp per 5 gallons.  I usually go for 3-4 tbsp per gallon when I treat Ich.  Do not raise the temperature before adding your salt/meds because that will increase the life cycle of the Ich, but will not kill it.  Heat alone will not kill Ich unless the temperature is 90+ degrees.

This so much tampering with the tank and water loll.  maybe I should just do a 100% water change and put the tetras (all of them) in a tank and put my betta in his 2.5 gal. Treat the tetra with ich, and fishless cycle the 10 gal for a week?

 

[Blondielovesfish]

The white filter with black rocks is the filter floss and carbon, if they seperate, remove the black rocks (carbon) but keep them for when you're medicating the ich. You can leave the filter floss in there but you will need to replace it about every two-four weeks.
Keep the black sheet with holes (sponge) in there, this will be where your nitrifying bacteria colony is located, bever remove this unless its absolutely falling apart, if it is falling apart then only replace a little bit each time.

How you remove the medication is you add carbon (the black rocks) to the filter and you also will need to do many water changes. Bear in mind that most ich medications will tell you to continue treating for another weekafter the ich has dissapeared.

Also, it would be better if you were to treat the whole tank as all the inhabitants are at risk of having ich.
Normally, you cannot cycle a tank in a week, unless you get some mature filter media either from a friend who has a mature tank or a nice LFS that will sell/give you some.
It would be better if you could just do the fish in cycle in the 10 gal.

 

[raggy]

The white filter with black rocks is the filter floss and carbon, if they seperate, remove the black rocks (carbon) but keep them for when you're medicating the ich. You can leave the filter floss in there but you will need to replace it about every two-four weeks.
Keep the black sheet with holes (sponge) in there, this will be where your nitrifying bacteria colony is located, bever remove this unless its absolutely falling apart, if it is falling apart then only replace a little bit each time.

How you remove the medication is you add carbon (the black rocks) to the filter and you also will need to do many water changes. Bear in mind that most ich medications will tell you to continue treating for another weekafter the ich has dissapeared.

Also, it would be better if you were to treat the whole tank as all the inhabitants are at risk of having ich.
Normally, you cannot cycle a tank in a week, unless you get some mature filter media either from a friend who has a mature tank or a nice LFS that will sell/give you some.
It would be better if you could just do the fish in cycle in the 10 gal.

 
Thnx again man.  If my betta doesn't have ich, should I keep him in there anyways?
 
So basically im treating the tank for ammonia and itch @____@ this is really tough!
 
When I am doing water changes for the ammonia do u think it will weaken the effect of the medicine?  Will it hurt the live plants?  And do you say to keep the black carbon win the white filter?  And when I am done medicating them I take the back rocks out?
 
 
Sorry for the multitude of questions but im hungry for knowledge.

 

[ech0o]

The ich is probably just stress related, due to the toxins in the water.   I would honestly just add some aquarium salt to the water, and continue trying to keep the ammonia/nitrite at reasonable levels.  I have heard of harsh water conditions causing ich before.

 

[raggy]

The ich is probably just stress related, due to the toxins in the water.   I would honestly just add some aquarium salt to the water, and continue trying to keep the ammonia/nitrite at reasonable levels.  I have heard of harsh water conditions causing ich before.

 
So don't add any medicine?  just 1/2 teaspoon for every gallon?  so for me its 5 teaspoons.  Are you guys sure about this? 

 

[raggy]

I was googling around and was told that salt wont really kill off itch.  it just adds a thicker coat to the freshwater fish.  but could do damage to their insides. : c so just medicine?
 
Edit: pls quick recap before I leave work (ive been at work this whole time I was posting loll) So no medicine and just salt?  Keep all the fish in the tank?  Do I take those black rocks out of the filter floss?

 

[raggy]

Guys my betta doesnt seem to have Ich.  He's white so its hard to tell, but i dont see any lumps or dust like stuff.  I pulled him out he's in his cup he came in.  One person told me to put salt in, another person told me to not put salt in, but just medicine.  What am i doing here?  Do i keep the betta in?  I still also need to decrease the ammonia levels in the 10 gal.

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

Salt definitely kills Ich.  Salt will create an unlivable environment for Ich parasites when they detach from the fish.  The Ich parasite has been studied extensively, and there are resources out there were you can learn all about Ich and how salt kills it.
 
When a fish is stressed, their immune systems become weakened which is why after transport to a new home, there can be an Ich outbreak.  However, contrary to popular belief, Ich is not always present in a tank.  If Ich does not have a host to attach to, the parasite will die.  There is no long-term dormant stage of the Ich parasite.  I have found, unfortunately, that a lot of fish stores, especially the ones that have shared filtration systems with multiple tanks are rampant with Ich.  This is why quarantine tanks are important.  If a new fish suddenly comes down Ich, it came from the place where it was bought, not from your own tank.
 
Now in your situation, your betta's immune system may still be fighting off the Ich parasite effectively.  You have described it to be showing little signs of stress.  Therefore, its immune system may not be weakened yet.  However, Ich outbreaks will eventually infect all fish in a tank, even the healthy ones.
 
So, move your betta to a clean (Ich-less) tank.  Don't bring any gravel, decor, or plants to the Ich-less tank.  Treat the infected tank for Ich.  I highly recommend salt.  Not only does it kill Ich parasites, it will also promote a new slime coat on your fish.  Other chemical based medications can slow or halt your cycling process and have long-term or permanent adverse health effects on your fish.
 
If you decide to go with salt treatment, you can PM for specific details.  I'll be happy to help!