I Need Some Help From Some Fish Experts!

sweetswimmers

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I used this: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?...ly&keepsr=1

Tetra AquaSafe to condition my water before putting my livebearers in...

Now I'm getting a goldfish/small koi for christmas, and I'm wondering if I can still use the same dechlorinator?
And also, is there any other special information I would need to know before I get this goldfish/koi? Like how should I care for it differently than my livebearers? Or is it the same? Currently, I have guppies/mollies/platies.
 
It's a decent brand, I work at petsmart and I can tell you one of the most popular dechlors are Topfin, because they're decently priced and do a good job. Dechlorinatore, regardless of the brand name, will do the same job... Dechlorinate your water... Goldfish are big, messy fish that prefer colder waters, not to say ice cold, but cold enough (about 65F). They grow from 6-8" maximum size and the rule of thumb with them is 1" of the fishes maximum size per 2 gallons of water with a starting tank of atleast 20gallons. Heavy filtration is essential with goldfish. Koi really need a pond to live in, they grow to 3' and at that size require high amounts of filtration, space, food and produce lots of waste. Goldfish need highly oxygenated areas of water to thrive, so I'd recommend having an oxygen pump for the tank.

Need any other help just ask,

Ryan
 
I've been using Aqua Safe dechlorinator for years and have never had any problems with it :good: .

If you do get a goldfish, make sure you research them thoroughly before you get one (since they are a big commitment, most goldfish varieties can live for 10-30years if looked after properly, they need powerful filtration since they are heavy waste producers, and they can grow very large as well, most fancy varieties will grow between 5-10inches long while most non-fancy varieties can grow to 15inches+), and make sure you set up a separate tank for it because goldfish will eat any fish which they can catch that fits into their mouths. They also tend to do best with the company of their own kind, so its best to get the goldfish a buddy or buddies- don't mix fancy goldfish with non-fancy goldfish though as can get bullying issues between the faster and more agile non-fancy varieties of goldfish towards the fancy ones.
The smallest growing variety of goldfish is the fancy bubble eye variety which tends to grow to 5inches long, the largest is the common goldfish, which can grow to 15inches+ long (i have even seen 20inch+ long specimens).

For pics of different varieties of goldfish, see here;

[URL="http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/goldfish.htm"]http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/goldfish.htm[/URL]

Koi are a no-no for aquariums unless you are going to build a monster size tank or indoor pond, PRW1988 is right that they can grow to 3ft+ long or more (i have even seen 4ft specimens before) :nod: .
 
Thanks! I have a air pump already. And I can use my Tetra Filter? I have an extra one left over from previous years.

Also, I've seen some people keep their goldfish in tiny bowls, without filter/air pump... that's bad, right?
 
goldfish + little tiny, unfiltered bowl = almost certain death...

How many gallons is the tank, and how much is the filters capacity? I'd recommened atleast doubling if not tripling the filter power (for example if the tank is 25gallons, then the filter should be atleast 70gallons).
 
Don't get a koi at all.

Don't get a normal goldfish at all.

If you're looking at staying smallish - 60 to 200 litres then get fancy goldfish.
 
I agree with Luketendo, if you do get a goldfish make sure it is a fancy one. Then you won't need to keep upgrading the tank. I think 30-40gal is good for most fancy goldies.
 
Thanks! I have a air pump already. And I can use my Tetra Filter? I have an extra one left over from previous years.

Also, I've seen some people keep their goldfish in tiny bowls, without filter/air pump... that's bad, right?



The filter is one of the most vital peices of equipment in the tank, so get as strong/powerful one as you can since goldfish do produce a lot of waste and do prefer a medium to strong water current in their tank :good: .

You should also read up on this topic of cycling tanks too just to make sure you are familiar with the way water quality works in aqauriums and stuff;

[URL="http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099"]http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099[/URL]

:thumbs: .


Its best to have at least a 15-25gallon tank for the first goldfish, and have 10gallons for every goldfish after that, although because some goldfish grow smaller or larger than others, this is only a guideline- the most important thing though at the end of the day is not how many gallons the tank holds but rather the tanks exact measurments (since quariums vary greatly in sizes and shapes now days), a long tank is better than a tall tank etc :nod: .
 
IF you simply place your water into a open bucket with either a air stone or a circulator pump and alow it to run for 24 hours or more , the clorine will simply evaporate i have never used ANY chemicals in my tanks
 
IF you simply place your water into a open bucket with either a air stone or a circulator pump and alow it to run for 24 hours or more , the clorine will simply evaporate i have never used ANY chemicals in my tanks
That does absolutely nothing to treat chloramines that are added to a lot of people tap water. Recommending that people dont use a dechlor is not the best of ideas. You must be lucky that your tap water doesnt have chloramines. Be aware more and more water municipalities are starting to use chloramine.

FYI, Dechlor detoxes more than just chlorine/chloramines.

Besides that I have way too many tanks to have the time to bother with buckets let alone preparing them for 24 hours before water changes using air pumps and air stones, thats old school fishkeeping (not that theres anything wrong with that :rolleyes: )

Drew
 
That does absolutely nothing to treat chloramines that are added to a lot of people tap water. Recommending that people dont use a dechlor is not the best of ideas. You must be lucky that your tap water doesnt have chloramines. Be aware more and more water municipalities are starting to use chloramine.

FYI, Dechlor detoxes more than just chlorine/chloramines.

Besides that I have way too many tanks to have the time to bother with buckets let alone preparing them for 24 hours before water changes using air pumps and air stones, thats old school fishkeeping (not that theres anything wrong with that :rolleyes: )

Drew

If you read many posts on this forum, there are quotes from scientific papers talking of how chloramines aren't bad for fish tanks, but feed bacteria in some cases.

FYI not all dechlorinator detoxes more than just chlorine/chloramines.

Chlorine does indeed gas off fast so there is not much of a worry about that.

Many people do water changes without dechlorinator, some know there's no need for it but feel safer using it. Searching through this forum will bring up may threads about this issue.
 
That does absolutely nothing to treat chloramines that are added to a lot of people tap water. Recommending that people dont use a dechlor is not the best of ideas. You must be lucky that your tap water doesnt have chloramines. Be aware more and more water municipalities are starting to use chloramine.

FYI, Dechlor detoxes more than just chlorine/chloramines.

Besides that I have way too many tanks to have the time to bother with buckets let alone preparing them for 24 hours before water changes using air pumps and air stones, thats old school fishkeeping (not that theres anything wrong with that :rolleyes: )

Drew

Many people do water changes without dechlorinator, some know there's no need for it but feel safer using it. Searching through this forum will bring up may threads about this issue.
So do you use it? Can you show me some scientific papers that says it is safe to use chloramines in an average fish tank?

Drew
 
I don't use it all the time, however I do occasionally when doing larger water changes (70%+).

Well, a quick perusal of the scientific literature came up with some rather surprising results.

Firstly, and most surprising to me, the problem ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) and nitrite oxidizing bacteria (NOB) growing in water utilities' facilities is becoming a somewhat serious issue. The chloramine does in fact, promote the growth of AOB and NOB, with the consequences -- written is a nice non-threatening way as -- "...the addition of chloramines can lead to biological instability in a drinking water distribution system by promoting the growth of nitrifying bacteria..." and "The resulting reduction in chloramine residual and development of a microbial community in the distribution system lead to water quality deterioration and violation of drinking water regulations." I think that I might very well have put a little more emphasis on violations of the drinking water regulations.

Basically, because the AOB and NOB grow, they excrete other organic compounds allowing other bacteria to grow. At the very minimum, this additional bacteria will require more chloramine to kill it off, but then, more chloramine promotes more growth of AOB and NOB, and I think you can see where this cycle is going... Here is the really bad news, with this extra growth, all that stuff we don't want in there could grow now, like the coliform bacteria (E. coli -- think spinach), and viruses, and Guardia lamblia and so on. All of these are pretty strictly required to be below certain levels by the U.S. EPA, and similarly in other countries.

Secondly, the really interesting part is that in lab test after lab test, the recommended exposure times and concentrations of chloramines do their jobs. The chloramines in the lab kill off all the organics, including the AOB and NOB. However, at the utility side of the issue, nitrification episodes are rather commonplace. One recent study found 63% of U.S. chloramining utilities and 64% of Southern Australian utilities tested positive for nitrifying bacteria.

One hypothesis for the discrepancy between the laboratory studies and operating results is that there are AOB strains
growing in full-scale systems that possess a greater chloramine resistance than those studied in the kinetic experiments. Whether the AOB strains used in earlier kinetic studies are representative of significant strains involved in full-scale nitrification episodes has not been confirmed, since there are no published evaluations of AOB diversity in chloraminated distribution systems.

This quote, and the above ones, from Regan, Harrington, and Noguera: "Ammonia- and Nitrite-Oxidizing Bacterial Communities in a Pilot-Scale Chloraminated Drinking Water Distribution System" Applied and Enviromental Microbiology 2002. The study where the %'s came from was Wolfe et al. "Occurrence of nitrification in chloranimated distribution systems" Journal (American Water Works Association), 1996

In other words, the strains that are in the water utilities have become more resistant to chloramines, and can indeed use the ammonia present as sustenance.

And, back to fishtanks, where do the AOB and NOB come from in the first place? Well, if you used tap water, they probably came from your water utility, and if a resistant strain has grown there... that same chloramine resistant strain is probably now growing in your tank too. The Regan et al. study cited above and Regan et al. "Diversity of nitrifying bacteria in full-scale cloranimated distribution systems" Water Research, 2003, was among the first to use DNA sequencing to distinguish all the different AOB and NOB that are growing. Some of the names should be pretty familiar: AOBs Nitrosospira, Nm. oligotropha and NOBs Nitrospira, Nitrobacter

So, it seems that AOB and so on can become resistant, or at the very least, as mentioned in the above posts, the chloramine levels are certainly not designed to sterilize a colony of bacteria as large in number as we culture in our tanks and so chloraminated water probably is not going to ruin a fishtank.
 
Many dechlorinators remove heavy metals often found present in tap water (which as far as i am aware do not evaporate off and can have a negative effect on the fish in the long term).
 

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