I know this is a hard one to answer...

[cichlidmaster]

ICH usually starts in the gills and spreads from there!!

It is possible the fish had ich!! Do a full treatment with the maracide do a 50% water change and check for any further signs of ich.

If your not sure do another full treatment!! I don't have the info with me, but I believe maracide at full strength is ok for clowns.

As for the chances of the clown making it...it depends on how bad it's infested with the parasite!!

As far as copper in the tank...if that was the problem IMO it didn't come from copper plumbing.

I put new copper plumbing in my house several years ago and continued my regular water changes with no problems at all!!

I take the water straight from the tap to my tanks never a problem.

CM

 

[ostrow]

Thanks. 50% water change after full treatment over right?

Is there any value to a water change midstream, as it were?

Also, I still haven't found any way to test for copper.

NitrAtes are at trace levels. Color is just barely above zero, so
that isn't a problem, nor should it be as I use Prime which
neutralizes NitrAtes.

None of the fish is badly infected. A couple spots at most visible
primarily on the tails. It is HARD to tell on the dwarf gouramis
if they have any cysts or not ... coloration issue I guess.

And now the REAL question! Is it "Ick" or "Ich"? I've seen both.
Is this a "side of the pond" issue?

 

[cichlidmaster]

DO NOT do a water change mid treatment as this will weaken the medication!!!

50% water change after full treatment. If I am correct treatment is 5 days do water change on day 6.

IMO don't bother with copper test kit!! IMO it's not necessary..

As for ICH or ICK IMO it doesn't really matter. Either one gets the point across!!

Good Luck and keep us posted!!!!

CM

 

[ostrow]

IMO cm knows fish!

Thanks!

Oh, so here's one ... assuming the treatment, which will end Sunday, is a success, and I do my water change, how long to folks usually wait before adding new fish (my stock is suddenly depleted! )

 

[cichlidmaster]

IMO a week is sufficient...

This will allow enough time to filter out any meds and to let the fish adjust.

Make absolutly sure that the problem has cleared up though!!

I don't recall if you have a quarantine tank or not, but it may be a good investment if you don't!!

I know quarantining fish is sometimes time consuming, but unless you are absolutly sure of your supplier of fish, it is a worth while expense.

Keep us posted!!!

CM

 

[ostrow]

If it weren't for my giving my son the 6G to use for his goldfish, I'd have a quarantine tank. But the kiddo comes first!!! He's even more important than fish!

 

[cichlidmaster]

I can understand that!!!

CM

 

[ostrow]

Clown loach has only 2 or 3 small spots on him, but he's on his way out. While there is ich in the tank, there is still something invisible killing my fish. Driving me nuts. But this clown loach is gonna be an ex-clown loach by morning.

Tempted to empty, boil, and start over. But I'm gonna try and resist that and save what I can.

Wish I knew what it was.

Treating with Maracide, but wondering if I should also be putting Maracyn 2 in there. I'm not, but like I say, there's something going on that I just can't find...

 

[cichlidmaster]

OK lets go from the beginning....

How long ago did this problem start?

Did it start around the first cold weather your area had?

In the winter many water municipalities add extra chlorine and chlorimines to the water supply.

When you do water changes, do you fill the tank straight from the tap or do you let your water sit for a period?

In the winter filling tanks straight from the tap can be hazardous. Due to the water composition there are many more tiny air bubbles that form on the glass and decor. Do you ever notice any of these air bubbles on your fish?

I still don't believe it would be a copper problem, unless your water supply is putting copper in the system...as Gibbo pointed out!!

May be worth your while to contact your water dept. and get a facts sheet on what chemicals and their concentrations are in your supply water.

I'll try to stay in touch with you on this one throughout the day, may be hard though as I have a full schedule here at work today!!

CM

 

[ostrow]

Thanks cm.

I'm in Chicago, and I'd say the problem started roughly 2 weeks ago. So it had been chilly for a while.

But I do notice a lot of bubbles in the tank (have you seem my post tiiiiiiiny bubbles?) There are lots of bubbles in the tank when I do a water change, esp if I change more than 30% or so. And I have done a large water change recently.

I don't let the water sit but I add Seachem's Prime as per instructions on the bottle. I probably go a little over the amount recommended as their dropper is quite hard to read. I've been told if adding that, I don't need to let water sit overnight.

Have the little bubbles collected on the fish? Not that I've ever seen. They usually clear to normal (and there are always little bubbles streaming around my tank ... again, my post Tiiiiiiiiiny bubbles talks about that), within about 15 minutes. They don't collect on the glass anymore (only when I initially filled the new tank, as is normal.)

Thanks!

 

[ostrow]

Well, the director of Water Supply in my town's Public Works department told me that Oak Park, Il in fact REDUCES the amount of chlorine in winter, and adds it at a variable rate to correspond to usage (so that if use goes down, the amount of chlorine in the water does not rise accordingly).

No copper added and he told me the levels are at miniscule trace levels.

Chicago adds "ortho phosphate" as a means of controlling lead in the water, but has been doing so for years and has not changed the amount in the water.

Soooooo, I don't know where that leaves us.

Why more bubbles in water in winter? As I think about it more did collect on the plants, and heater, and filter intake, last water change.

How long would one need to leave it sit to reduce this?

 

[ostrow]

Clown loach's head seems a darker color than it was. But I can't be 100% sure. But what would it mean if it had been orangish and now is dark brown or almost black even???

 

[Danny - the lost soul---]

Let me jump in kinda late here. I see CM has covered all the most important point. Good choice of meds also.

As mentioned ick does attack and in most cases starts off in the gill plates. Alot of fish are more prone than others and suffer at a faster rate. Once the parasite has atatched to the gills it starts to deprive the fish of oxygen and starts to feed on the blood cells.
in most cases by the time ick is present there are already fish suffering more than others. The weekest tend to get it worse. Clowns are more delecate when it come to ick. Normally the first to show signs whenick is present.

The color change you notice is common and they do this at times when stressed and or trying to camo. themselvs. If you are treating the tank currently this could just be a reaction to the change in the water chemistry.

As far as treatment, well CM beat me to it so just follow his advice. FULL treatment and 40- 50% water change when complete. Try to avoid the temp drops because this in itself can and will cause / bring on ick.

Good Luck, Keep us posted.
Danny

 

[ostrow]

On avoiding temp drops: I've been going with a 100W heater in a 30G tank. Will upping to 150W or 200W help stabilize temp? It is cold in Chic and the tank is not in the warmest room in the house (though it isn't in the coldest either).

All seems clear except for two spots on the clown. This is day 4, with meds to go in this evening. So there's still hope. At least no more have died.

Thanks all. Can't believe this went a week with no white spots visible, but I'm more and more sure this was all an ick attack.

Guess white spot isn't necessarily the best nickname for the disease

 

[Danny - the lost soul---]

A 100w should be pl;enty for a 30g. Most my 55g run 100W. A few run smaller heaters but maintain a steady temp. Most older heaters do not perform like the newer ones.

Does yours have a light indicator and or temp gauge on it ? Better heaters have the temperture setting right on the heater. This helps because the setting stays as set. Turns on and off as needed and there is no need to ajust over and over.

A good heater and a thermometor. You do not want to OVER heat the tank either. Or you will have a fish fry,
How old is your current heater ?
Even if the temp outside is cold the tank should stay at a set temp with little fluctuation if any.
Hope this helps,
Danny