I Just Don't Get It - New Fish Mortality Rates

[CEB]

I am experiencing high mortality rates for new fish. A couple of weeks ago I bought three Sunset Platties and three Golden Sucking Loaches. The loaches died; one on the first day, one on the fifth, one on the 8th. Two of the Platties looked rough for a couple of days, but are now okay (one isn't quite back to full health).

Months ago, I bought a load of fish from a different supplier. Over half died within a week. They tested the water and found it to be okay, so they replaced the dead fish. Still some died.

I have about 275 litres (48x18x20 inches). Undergravel filter powered by 2 powerheads, Fluval 2 box filter. Every three weeks I do a 25% water change. I use Nutrafin AquaPlus to remove chlorine, and Interpet General Tonic and Flora Boost. The tank is mature, and water quality stable. I don't test regularly but each time I test, the results are the same (do test kits go "out of date"; some of mine are old). pH 7.4. Our local water is very hard, but I've kept fish for years and never needed to soften it.

I don't have many fish, maybe too few? A pepper corydoras (two others died after introduction), some Red Eye Tetras, three new Sunset Platties, a few Cardinal Tetras, and a few old misfits.

What level of mortality should I expect from new fish?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[dwarfgourami]

How do you acclimatise the fish?

 

[Cheffi]

I think maybe a weekly water change instead of every 3 weeks might help.

 

[CFC]

How old is the tank?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?

Do you regularly vacume the substrate?

What exactly are the readings from the test kits?

Yes test kits do expire, they should be discarded within 6 months of opening them.

 

[CEB]

Thanks for your reply.

15-20 mins in the closed bag floating upright in the tank to equalise temperature. I then cut off the top of the bag and use a mug to transfer tankwater into the bag, a little at a time over about five minutes. When the volume of the bag has doubled (ie I've added tankwater to a 50/50 mix), I slowly dip the opening in the tank and allow the fish to swim out.

Any tips?

 

[CFC]

Sorry i realised that my post was a bit blunt and should have further explanation.

I suspect your tank is suffering form "old tank syndrome". This is where organic debrie has built up over time producing a tank with high levels of nitrate and dissolved organic solids and low pH and KH levels. Fish that are established in the tank seem unaffected as they have gradually become used to the water as it changes but new fish go into shock and many die when introduced.

 

[CEB]

You lot are like buses

I agree, a weekly water change of 10% would be better, but a busy lifestyle... Maybe that's no excuse.

This tank is about 4 years old.

Water changes approx every three weeks (every two weeks lately). 25% each time. I syphon the gravel at each water change.

pH 7.4

I can't find a record of the readings, but they were all good (0 ppm nitrates, nitrites, chlorine, etc). My test kit is now years old. Have to get more. Wish there was a digital one.

You didn't seem blunt to me.

I can't type quick enough to post between your replies.

Thanks for the old-tank explaination. Could be true, but I syphon the gravel regularly.

I do have some bogwood (tree roots) in the tank. I clean them off every now and then, but they soon get a brown coating again. Perhaps I should remove them and use fake ones (shudder).

What's the solution to the old-tank syndrome? Not a rebuild, I hope. Should I check the water conditions with new test kits to confirm the diagnosis first?

Thanks again.

 

[MHunt]

Have you considered some kind of bacterial infection? Your water parameters would still appear fine even though your fish are dying!

I've just treated my tank after a number of unexplained deaths. Some after a few days of being added, some who have been in the tank for months!

 

[CEB]

At most water changes, I use Interpet Liquisil General Tonic. From the box "Reduces background levels of bacteria, fungus and parasites". Is there something better?

EDIT: How are your fish now?

 

[MHunt]

My remaining fish are still ok, but i only treated the tank this week so i'll need longer to see if any more fall ill.
Like i said, these are completely unexplained deaths as far as i can see. There are very few fish in my tank that would harass others. My guppies harrass each other but that's just guppies, my tetras are peaceful enough, my male dwarf cockatoo is lonely now without any females but just keeps to himself. My dwarf gourami and my platy are the only boistrous fish in the tank, but only with each other and that appears to have subsided now with no ill effects.

It sounds like you're doing everything you can to keep your fish healthy, i know i am trying to, it's just frustrating when there's no apparent reason for the fish to be dying.

 

[CEB]

I agree, it is frustrating.

I don't trust the water company. Twice this year the water has been brown out of the tap. Once due to an eight-engine fire locally (the volume they pump stirred up sediment in the pipes), and once due to some maintenance work where they reversed the flow and it stirred up sediment. They just say run the taps for 10 minutes (even at times of drout), and that it's still safe to drink.

I did see a notice in a LFS a few years back warning that the water company had added extra chemicals to the water for some reason, and it wasn't safe to use (temporarily).

What do we do at the first sign of trouble? Water change.

My wife thinks my tank could be too clean, even with a water change every three weeks.

 

[moeldner]

I don't know if this will help or not, but I lost a batch of 7-8 Neon Rainbows this year to a relatively established tank (about 9 months old). My water parameters were fine (0 ammonia and nitrites, 5-10ppm nitrates, 0 chlorine, low CO2, very soft water and ph around 7). They died over a period of 5-6 days after I bought them.

After a very involved chat with the LFS I got them from, he also tested my water sample, and we discovered a significant difference in the water chemistry. They use a special salt/coral blend in all their freshwater tanks to increase hardness and improve the buffering capacity of the water.

It is not something they generally tell people about, so a friend of mine discovered when she too was losing fish from there.

We believe the shock from the different water chemistry is what killed them. The ones still in the tank I didn't buy were fine.

I bought some of their "special" blend and used it for a while. It didn't helop my water hardness, so I've stopped adding it at water changes, and am now using htose water changes to dilute whatever is left in the tank so my fish can adapt slowly.

Anyway, that was my experience over some un-explained deaths. If I buy fish from them again, they will be getting acclinmatised over a several hours from now on.

 

[yvez9]

you seem to be adding lots of stuff for your water change

That bacterial stuff you add, what is it exactly? and do you really need it?

Also, i've found a store with an amazing reputation in the east end of montreal and turns out we bought about 20 fish from there over the course of 3-4 months. All except 1 have died within a week after purchase.

the first batch we figured was just a bad batch since the store really does have a good reputation and they quarantine their fish.
then the second batch also died. I spoke with the owner and it seems i wasn't acclimatizing the fish properly. I explained what i did and that it was succesful with pretty much all the other fish i bought elsewhere. He told me how to do it (which was basically the same way i already told him i did it). of course he wouldn't give me a credit for the dead fish even if they died 2 days after purchase because it was my recklessness that killed them.

I asked about his pH and it was pretty close to mine. So we bought more fish and they of course all died within a week. Now, why is it that all the fish i bought elsewhere have been fine going on 2 years now and his fish won't last a month? I don't know but i've stopped buying there. Besides, their staff is arrogant and everything is overpriced in that store.

Moral of the story, you mgiht be doing nothing wrong, try your luck elsewhere with fish. Some stores must add all kinds of medicines to their water to cure fish and make them appear healthy when they are not

 

[CEB]

I haven't asked this LFS what they do to their water, but I did with a previous shop (which has now, sadly, closed). They said they just remove Chlorine and Chloramine from the tap-water they use, so essentially it should be the same for local fish-keepers. Perhaps a longer aclimatisation period would help.

Let's face it, the fish are yanked out of the wild or the farm, boxed up, driven to the airport, flown (economy class) to us, driven to the shop and dumped in a tank. Then they're scooped up in a net, thrown in a bag, driven home and dumped in a tank. How many times have we fallen ill after a holiday journey?!

From other people's experiences, I think it's just a matter of luck whether they survive or not.

The anti-bacteria stuff I use is Interpet No 5 General Tonic. I Googled and found this excellent review from here:

[Snip] Liquisil, No. 5 in the Interpet Aquarium Treatment range, is a very useful water treatment for fish enthusiasts to keep at hand. It’s a general tonic, a fishy ‘pick me up’ if you like. It works by helping to keep the naturally occurring bacteria, fungus and parasites at a level that is harmless to the fish.

This product can be used in several different ways...

Â￾ as a boost when a new aquarium is set up
Â￾ as a stress reliever when new fish are added
Â￾ as a precaution if fish appear ’off colour’
Â￾ as a preventative measure to reduce the chance of illness [Snip]​

PS. I hope it's okay to link to other sites like this. If not, please remove the link or let me know and I will do so.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK firstly you need to sling out your test kit and get a new one, then post your results, you might be surprised how different they are.

I agree with CFC it could well be old tank syndrome.

i'd recommend upping your maintenance routine, water changes weekly are a must, keep to 25%. stop putting that bacterial stuff in. if you treat too much fish can become immune to the meds and then if you did get a disease you'd struggle to treat it. Only treat when you need to. A healthy tank shouldn't need it. Just make sure your using a dechlorinator that gets rid of heavy metals and that's plenty enough. sorry to be harsh but a busy lifestyle is no excsue. if you always do it weekly and then miss the odd week cos your too busy then that's fair enough, it'll be healthy enough to sustain it. But to consistently do it every 3 weeks I just don't think is enough. If you haven't time to look after animals properly you should have them, don't mean to be harsh but you do need to think about it.

when and how do you clean and change your filter media?