OohFeeshy
It's only forever; not long at all...
It's like gonig intoa clothes shop, the employees don't tell you what a numpty you look in what you've picked, do they? Its the customers fault...
I Get Upset
- Thread starter alby10
- Start date
fish_keeper2
I am Nemo!!
i bet none of you have been in petsmart and watched helplessly as they bagged a huge oscar for some little kid(some where around 10 years old or so) whos parents werent anywhere around.
timmystood
:-)
This has just happened to me! - I've just been to my LFS where i've got my newest addition! (Yellow-Spotted Pleco!)
Anyway, there was this women there trying to juggle two young kids and shopping.
Anyway to cut a long story short she ended up taking a tank, a fake plant AND the fish! (4 neons!)
She's not even giving it one day to cycle! - The member of staff was good and was TRYING to explain the situation but she was having none of it. After all, the staff cannot stop people from buying what they like!
I had to bit my lip to the point it was nearly bleeding not to shout at this women - espically as her kids get running into me
Anyway, there was this women there trying to juggle two young kids and shopping.
Anyway to cut a long story short she ended up taking a tank, a fake plant AND the fish! (4 neons!)
She's not even giving it one day to cycle! - The member of staff was good and was TRYING to explain the situation but she was having none of it. After all, the staff cannot stop people from buying what they like!
I had to bit my lip to the point it was nearly bleeding not to shout at this women - espically as her kids get running into me
Boxcar Muzzdogg
Fish Crazy
I completely understand the concerns both as hobbyist, and as someone on the other side who is responsible for assisting hobbyists and newcomers in successfully caring for their fish.
However, I'm getting increasingly tired of hearing the whining from people that complain about "stupid" lfs employees, and how its the lfs' fault that someone failed in keeping their fish alive. How about a little personal responsibility.
Yes it is the lfs reponsibility to provide customers with top quality assitance and information, but it is the customers responsibility to research, to know about the products before they even start picking them out, and to ask the proper questions. Some customers come up to me and say, "I'm thinking about getting this ten gallon tank, could you show me what kind of fish can go in there and how to properly care for them," at which point I begin asking questions and formulating the best solution for this particular situation. This is the way a customer should go about business. When they are done, I send them home with some written information and suggest good publications for research. I have had many customers who have done research before even coming into the store.
Then there are the morons, the people who come into the store, buying for the first time, or maybe not the first time, but are just plain dumb, and they in no way indicate what their current situation is. Lfs employees are not detectives, and they are not mind readers, and it is not their job to babysit the customers. If the employee is doing a good job, they might ask a couple questions to get some indication of the fish's destination and future care. If the customer does not ask the proper questions or does not give answers that indicate they need additional information, then it is the customers' fault if anything should go wrong.
Just yesterday I had a customer that brought me a dead guppy. It turns out he had a new tank, but without getting into specifics, his setup was all wrong. He also had never heard of the nitrogen cycle. I explained it to him several times with defferent approaches and he just could not comprehend how there could be toxic levels of ammonia, "in a brand new tank." I refused to give him another fish and he became angry. I sent him away with some informative reading and told him if he had questions at any time to contact me for assistance. He said I didn't have to worry because he would never come back to this store.
This is another fault of customers that often gets blamed on the lfs. I know, from my own visits, and from contact with customers, what lfs' in the area have to offer. There is only one person that I know of personally, and that I have met, that knows more than I do (which is not that much) about the aquarist hobby, who operates within 25 minutes of the store I work at. It also turns out that this person, although they have the proper knowledge, lies to customers about fish. So this idiot I dealt with last night has just cut himself off from almost any chance at being successful in the hobby, and he will now be visiting other stores beleiving that they have the answers that I do not (which I did give him but he could not understand)
Now he is assuredly telling others not to come to this particular lfs because I do not know what I'm talking about, which means that more people will cut themsleves off in the future from getting quality service and information, and that really pisses me off. The next time someone would like to bash an lfs employee, try thinking twice, try to imagine how stressful and hectic their job may be, and not only is not their job, but they do not have the time to babysit customers. Grown men and women should have the ability to ask the proper questions, and to use crytical thinking when making purchases. If, after the first time complications arise in the care of a pet, a living creature, an individual with intelligence would think, hey maybe I should do some research and find out just what is needed to care for aliving creature, because obviously putting them in a box and leaving them doesn't work.
However, many people in the US lack this critical thinking ability(I would not know what the situation in the UK is) and also lack the ability to improve themselves as human beings, they only posess the ability to blame others in order to disguise their own faults.
I am extremely annoyed by the constant lfs employee bashing. I, as well as my fellow employees do an excellent job in assisting customers. Lfs employees will never be perfect, and mistakes will be made by even the best employee. The sheer volume of work and customer load, as well as the rediculous degree of ignorance in the populace, and societies encouragement of that ignorance, assures that lfs employees will always be blamed for the mistakes of customers. But I would like everyone to know that some of the people that are slandered, work extremely hard to bring even the most unnapreciative customers the best possible service and information.
When society as a whole abandons its nurturing of ignorance as a means to personal gain, and instead encourages taking responsibility for one's choices, and encourages a questioning of surroundings in order to gain a depper understanding, then we will see more responsible customers and lfs employees.
EDIT: I just want to add that I did not mean to offend anyone on this forum in any way, and that I am not trying to discourage anyone from saying anything they feel, even if they still feel like making negative remarks about lfs employees, and I would also like to make clear that I agree with many of the complaints about lfs', I just wanted to get my thoughts out there from the other side
However, I'm getting increasingly tired of hearing the whining from people that complain about "stupid" lfs employees, and how its the lfs' fault that someone failed in keeping their fish alive. How about a little personal responsibility.
Yes it is the lfs reponsibility to provide customers with top quality assitance and information, but it is the customers responsibility to research, to know about the products before they even start picking them out, and to ask the proper questions. Some customers come up to me and say, "I'm thinking about getting this ten gallon tank, could you show me what kind of fish can go in there and how to properly care for them," at which point I begin asking questions and formulating the best solution for this particular situation. This is the way a customer should go about business. When they are done, I send them home with some written information and suggest good publications for research. I have had many customers who have done research before even coming into the store.
Then there are the morons, the people who come into the store, buying for the first time, or maybe not the first time, but are just plain dumb, and they in no way indicate what their current situation is. Lfs employees are not detectives, and they are not mind readers, and it is not their job to babysit the customers. If the employee is doing a good job, they might ask a couple questions to get some indication of the fish's destination and future care. If the customer does not ask the proper questions or does not give answers that indicate they need additional information, then it is the customers' fault if anything should go wrong.
Just yesterday I had a customer that brought me a dead guppy. It turns out he had a new tank, but without getting into specifics, his setup was all wrong. He also had never heard of the nitrogen cycle. I explained it to him several times with defferent approaches and he just could not comprehend how there could be toxic levels of ammonia, "in a brand new tank." I refused to give him another fish and he became angry. I sent him away with some informative reading and told him if he had questions at any time to contact me for assistance. He said I didn't have to worry because he would never come back to this store.
This is another fault of customers that often gets blamed on the lfs. I know, from my own visits, and from contact with customers, what lfs' in the area have to offer. There is only one person that I know of personally, and that I have met, that knows more than I do (which is not that much) about the aquarist hobby, who operates within 25 minutes of the store I work at. It also turns out that this person, although they have the proper knowledge, lies to customers about fish. So this idiot I dealt with last night has just cut himself off from almost any chance at being successful in the hobby, and he will now be visiting other stores beleiving that they have the answers that I do not (which I did give him but he could not understand)
Now he is assuredly telling others not to come to this particular lfs because I do not know what I'm talking about, which means that more people will cut themsleves off in the future from getting quality service and information, and that really pisses me off. The next time someone would like to bash an lfs employee, try thinking twice, try to imagine how stressful and hectic their job may be, and not only is not their job, but they do not have the time to babysit customers. Grown men and women should have the ability to ask the proper questions, and to use crytical thinking when making purchases. If, after the first time complications arise in the care of a pet, a living creature, an individual with intelligence would think, hey maybe I should do some research and find out just what is needed to care for aliving creature, because obviously putting them in a box and leaving them doesn't work.
However, many people in the US lack this critical thinking ability(I would not know what the situation in the UK is) and also lack the ability to improve themselves as human beings, they only posess the ability to blame others in order to disguise their own faults.
I am extremely annoyed by the constant lfs employee bashing. I, as well as my fellow employees do an excellent job in assisting customers. Lfs employees will never be perfect, and mistakes will be made by even the best employee. The sheer volume of work and customer load, as well as the rediculous degree of ignorance in the populace, and societies encouragement of that ignorance, assures that lfs employees will always be blamed for the mistakes of customers. But I would like everyone to know that some of the people that are slandered, work extremely hard to bring even the most unnapreciative customers the best possible service and information.
When society as a whole abandons its nurturing of ignorance as a means to personal gain, and instead encourages taking responsibility for one's choices, and encourages a questioning of surroundings in order to gain a depper understanding, then we will see more responsible customers and lfs employees.
EDIT: I just want to add that I did not mean to offend anyone on this forum in any way, and that I am not trying to discourage anyone from saying anything they feel, even if they still feel like making negative remarks about lfs employees, and I would also like to make clear that I agree with many of the complaints about lfs', I just wanted to get my thoughts out there from the other side
Genesis
If you're a cory and you know it clap your.. hands
agreed, i saw this at Pets At Home:
"i want two of those mum!" said a 7ish year old kid pointing at a red-tailed black shark
"how big is your tank?" asked the employee
"20litres" the woman replied
"they should be fine then" said the employee
2 rtbs' in a 5gallon? i dont think so
you'd be lucky to get away with 2 in a 125gal without one ending up dead
poor fishies, one is probably dead now
"i want two of those mum!" said a 7ish year old kid pointing at a red-tailed black shark
"how big is your tank?" asked the employee
"20litres" the woman replied
"they should be fine then" said the employee
2 rtbs' in a 5gallon? i dont think so
you'd be lucky to get away with 2 in a 125gal without one ending up dead
poor fishies, one is probably dead nowDangerousdan
Moved On
.
Littlelady
New Member
I must say that I do agree with where Boxcar MUzzdogg is going with this - my son is 10 years old and together we have 4 tanks in the house, okay one is classed as his and one as mine, the others are ours, but we work on them together and do the water changes together etc.
He knows that before we go out and buy fish we research them. We make sure that our tanks are big enough in the long run, that our current fish are compatible with any potential newcomers and that we are prepared to look after them as they need. There have been many a fish we have fallen in love with and gone home to research only to find we can't have them - but we have our pact never to buy fish without the other around and never without researching. I feel it is my responsibility as his parent to teach him the right way of doing things - MY responsibility not the lfs employees..
Having said that, the original point of the thread was just how upsetting it is to see and know that people are taking fish home that are going to suffer, and I agree. It is very upsetting, however people often do as they please and I am sure even if the lfs keeper did make sure to ask the relevant questions things would never change because many people don't want to hear the correct information. I am sure once customers have made up their minds to have a certain fish or do things a certain way, no qualified employee will be able to stop them.
Very upsetting, but typical human ignorance/self righteousness
He knows that before we go out and buy fish we research them. We make sure that our tanks are big enough in the long run, that our current fish are compatible with any potential newcomers and that we are prepared to look after them as they need. There have been many a fish we have fallen in love with and gone home to research only to find we can't have them - but we have our pact never to buy fish without the other around and never without researching. I feel it is my responsibility as his parent to teach him the right way of doing things - MY responsibility not the lfs employees..
Having said that, the original point of the thread was just how upsetting it is to see and know that people are taking fish home that are going to suffer, and I agree. It is very upsetting, however people often do as they please and I am sure even if the lfs keeper did make sure to ask the relevant questions things would never change because many people don't want to hear the correct information. I am sure once customers have made up their minds to have a certain fish or do things a certain way, no qualified employee will be able to stop them.
Very upsetting, but typical human ignorance/self righteousness
alby10
New Member
Blimey!
Let me put a few things straight about the motives of why I posted this topic; it was just a view of how I feel when I see what I consider to be bad unethical practice. We are the reason why the fish are taken from the wild or are bread especially, and therefore we have the moral duty to do the best we can for them.
I was no way having a pop at the kids who work at fish shops they often earn poor wages and receive no proper training, its the large companies ( and we all know who we are talking about ) polices that need to be addressed.
I have always found that small independent shops give excellent advice on things like cycling and suitability, and they don’t go bust by telling you as it is.
If you look at the small ads in your local newspaper it’s full of nearly new or hardly used 2ft tanks for sale, not all upgrades I think.
As for the people who would never buy if they new the difficulties of keeping fish before they started, its better they find out now rather than later, it’s about time beginners were warned that the hobby is not just tank + water + fish.
We all get very emotive when we talk about the abhorrent practice of dyed or modified fish, but 1000’s of fish worldwide dying every day has got to be worse.
I know all shops are not like this and all staff are not clueless……..but some are!
No offence was intended to anyone when I wrote this; it’s for the fish’s sake
Let me put a few things straight about the motives of why I posted this topic; it was just a view of how I feel when I see what I consider to be bad unethical practice. We are the reason why the fish are taken from the wild or are bread especially, and therefore we have the moral duty to do the best we can for them.
I was no way having a pop at the kids who work at fish shops they often earn poor wages and receive no proper training, its the large companies ( and we all know who we are talking about ) polices that need to be addressed.
I have always found that small independent shops give excellent advice on things like cycling and suitability, and they don’t go bust by telling you as it is.
If you look at the small ads in your local newspaper it’s full of nearly new or hardly used 2ft tanks for sale, not all upgrades I think.
As for the people who would never buy if they new the difficulties of keeping fish before they started, its better they find out now rather than later, it’s about time beginners were warned that the hobby is not just tank + water + fish.
We all get very emotive when we talk about the abhorrent practice of dyed or modified fish, but 1000’s of fish worldwide dying every day has got to be worse.
I know all shops are not like this and all staff are not clueless……..but some are!
No offence was intended to anyone when I wrote this; it’s for the fish’s sake
lavapeanut
Fish Fanatic
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Yes I get upset too with all of most of fish shop keepers and fish sellers in here too... I once was inside a fish shop, the owner of the fish shop were talking with me , out of a sudden a small fish jump out of its tank and landed on the floor & jumping. Guess what she did with that fish? 
use a dirty net and net it back into the tank! How will other fish and that poor fish feel inside that tank
I assume a lot of things like that happened in every hour inside that fish shop I 'guess'...
In Cantonese, there is a slang we call to describe people who lying : "goldfish seller" (It is THAT bad)
Hong Kong, Macau and Guang Dong people speak Cantonese... so that sum up what most of South China area fish sellers are like.
use a dirty net and net it back into the tank! How will other fish and that poor fish feel inside that tank I assume a lot of things like that happened in every hour inside that fish shop I 'guess'...
In Cantonese, there is a slang we call to describe people who lying : "goldfish seller" (It is THAT bad)
Hong Kong, Macau and Guang Dong people speak Cantonese... so that sum up what most of South China area fish sellers are like.
Katchan
Fish Addict
The other day I had a conversation with the owner (not a weekend staff member) of my lfs about 'fishless cycling/adding pure ammonia - over the traditional 'lets kill a couple of cheap fish' method...
he was 'horrified' by my suggestion of adding pure ammonia instead... purely because he didn't know about it...
**not good enough**... in any field, there are always new (but not always better) methods of achieving your desired results (its called progress)... the lfs has a responsibilty to know the latest 'trends'... if they work or not... and be able to advise/pass this information on in a simple and understandable manner to newbies and more experienced fish keepers alike...
If, through my own research, I didn't know the benefits of a 'fishless' cycle, I would have happily bought a few Danios or suchlike... and been back to buy more when/if they died as part of the cycling process... the lfs then makes more money - which at the end of the day, no matter how much they 'love' fish - is there main concern... bills and staff to pay etc...
Do your OWN research...
he was 'horrified' by my suggestion of adding pure ammonia instead... purely because he didn't know about it...
**not good enough**... in any field, there are always new (but not always better) methods of achieving your desired results (its called progress)... the lfs has a responsibilty to know the latest 'trends'... if they work or not... and be able to advise/pass this information on in a simple and understandable manner to newbies and more experienced fish keepers alike...
If, through my own research, I didn't know the benefits of a 'fishless' cycle, I would have happily bought a few Danios or suchlike... and been back to buy more when/if they died as part of the cycling process... the lfs then makes more money - which at the end of the day, no matter how much they 'love' fish - is there main concern... bills and staff to pay etc...
Do your OWN research...
OK, I work at a Petsmart, and I probably refuse to sell fish more than I sell them.
People don't do their research before coming in, and it really gets to me!
I get such angry customers sometimes when, after they tell me they have a 10 gallon tank, I let them know flat out that they cannot put an oscar in it...
Sadly, a lot of my customers have the attitude that "it's just a fish, who cares?"
I can HONESTLY say that at the Petsmart where I work, there is NO PRESSURE to sell anything at all.
When we (pet care employees) were first training, we were told that the well-being of all our pets, including fish, was to be considered before anything else.
Which is why I stayed there.
People don't do their research before coming in, and it really gets to me!
I get such angry customers sometimes when, after they tell me they have a 10 gallon tank, I let them know flat out that they cannot put an oscar in it...
Sadly, a lot of my customers have the attitude that "it's just a fish, who cares?"
I can HONESTLY say that at the Petsmart where I work, there is NO PRESSURE to sell anything at all.
When we (pet care employees) were first training, we were told that the well-being of all our pets, including fish, was to be considered before anything else.
Which is why I stayed there.
Genesis
If you're a cory and you know it clap your.. hands
yes, but it depends on the gender od the red-tails, if there were 2 males you'd have a dead one, you just dont know when they are juvies, i thought mine was a male for ages until about 4 months later she developed a nice rounded underside when she reached about 4 inches
so if these towo fish are in fact males, there is going to be a dead one, and being kept in a 5 gallon? TWO (to be) 6 inch male rtbs'? thats ASKING for one going belly-upSimilar threads
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