Hydor Prime 30

[raptorrex]

you have it wrong. the 10x rule is on paper, so generally you will be getting 5x turnover or there abouts which is usually ok.
most filters actually kick out about 60% (on average) of their stated amounts. i know the eheim pro3 2080 actually kicks out 71% which is pretty good.

manurfacturers test their filters with no media and on a level with the tank. whereas when we the customers use them, they are full of media and often below the tank but at least 50cm, often more.

so a 1200 will be fine on your tank. or a filter with a flowrate of 1200LPH. 10x is a target and is best for most midsize tanks.

HTH

the tetra 1200 gets nowhere near 1200 lph. as i stated 600 at best. and exactly have i got wrong? or do you mean all the high flow planted tank members?
eheim do not test their filters empty, nor do they use it at tank level. they test with a full set of Eheim recommended media and filter pads. they also use 1m of piping and the furniture like crooks and inlets. you can ask them if you like, i did. its one of the reasons eheim seem to need lower flow rates than others do. because they list pump power, and filter flow rate. flow rate being the one they use for tank capacity.

 

[Nick16]

you dont seem to be able to grasp the 10x rule. when you are filtering a tank we generally want 10x turnover on paper. (this is what the manurfacturers claim a filter can do), but in reality 10x is more than enough. so you will actually be getting 5 or 6x turnover which is still perfect. the 10x rule is simple because you just add up what the filter will 'supposedly' do, not what it ACTUALLY does. Therefore the 10x takes into account the loss of flow when a filter is filled and running.

 

[Bluetooth]

great that i started a hypothetical ndiscussion on filter flow rates...

to respond to the question aimed at me, i bought an Aquis Aqua One Advance 1250 which states a 1250l/h "maximum" however it also states an 850l/h with the canister under the aquarium in a cabinet complete with media and pumping to a height of 120cm

so in reality if im using this and the internal juwel i should just be touching 5x an hour or so (50% of the juwel internal filter rate), on paper im touching 10x (1250+600)

Couldnt this be simply measured by taking the inlet out of the water enough to fill a certain container and measure the time it took to fill it?

after a day since i wiped out my bacteria the bloom has already started to clear so im hopeful

 

[Nick16]

yeah it sure can, ideally use a 1L container for ease of use!

yeah, we aim for 10x according to the manurfacturers maximum output but it is always less than that so normally we get around 5x.

as you have seen with your filter, its actually putting out 850LPH.

do you understand what im saying?

 

[Bluetooth]

yea i totally understand it, so basically my filter was only really being cycled once an hour.. no wonder it failed miserably with my fish in the tank. thank god for credit cards =-)

 

[raptorrex]

you dont seem to be able to grasp the 10x rule. when you are filtering a tank we generally want 10x turnover on paper. (this is what the manurfacturers claim a filter can do), but in reality 10x is more than enough. so you will actually be getting 5 or 6x turnover which is still perfect. the 10x rule is simple because you just add up what the filter will 'supposedly' do, not what it ACTUALLY does. Therefore the 10x takes into account the loss of flow when a filter is filled and running.

I grasp the rule. but how can you work out flow rates by guessing? especially if the premise for working out "true" flow, is based on faulty information? your thought on how all manufacturers measure their filter flow rates, is, not even, slightly true. so how can you make a dessication on its "true" flow rate?
I have made comments on flow rates here, that i have measured, not made a guess at. yet you seem to think your guess is more accurate than a measurement.

i also talk of "Real/true" flow, whenever i speak of filters. so either you are saying ALL planted tank keepers are guessing, when they recommend, set ups. i find it hard to believe, people so dedicated to a cause would guess, and pass this on as fact. or you may do it this way. but not others. which is it. if its your way, we have many people claiming 12x, thinking they get 6x, but in truth are getting
closer to 4x. why not just measure.

Couldnt this be simply measured by taking the inlet out of the water enough to fill a certain container and measure the time it took to fill it?

after a day since i wiped out my bacteria the bloom has already started to clear so im hopeful

yes thats how i measure flow, i find it better than guessing. however with the juwel, and many internals, higher flow rates, are not good for boi growth. there is simply not enough media to deal with the water rate. i measured a juwel unit, 600, after 4 weeks of use, it made just short of 2x flow in a 180 tank, but it does provide circulation.

on measuring, whilst we are at it. use a container, size within reason, makes no difference. get a stop watch and a set of scales. let the filter fill the container for a given time. then weigh the result (remember to set ter, for container weight). the result is more accurate than trying to fill an given volume, and seeing how long it takes.

 

[Nick16]

i have simply been passing on information passed down to me on the planted forums.
everyone knows 10x is a guideline often used as it works for 99% of people. its there to give the newbies something to aim for, rather than just leaving in the horrid juwel things.

anyway, in all my tanks that have had 10x, i have had no problems so obviously guessing works eh? maybe im just a born guesser?

 

[Bluetooth]

getting a bit warm in here =-P

Yet again since the other day when the bloom started it has already cleared more, i can see the back of my tank now lol, its getting there and clearing pretty quickly, im quite upset with juwel though, whats the point of selling a filter than cant even handle the stuff in the actual tank? I know they sell it to help and such and they think itll be stocked with tiny fish or something ut meh.

The aqua one is running well, gotta say its quite quiet, only a low hum can be heard in a silent room and when the tv is on you cant even hear it so im happy with it so far, easy to maintain so far as well, have had it open to make sure the flow was going the right way etc and was rather easy to take apart.

Tis heavy though lol, big fella like me is alright with it, but someone with... a more questionable lifestyle might have issues picking it up rofl =-)

 

[raptorrex]

i have simply been passing on information passed down to me on the planted forums.
everyone knows 10x is a guideline often used as it works for 99% of people. its there to give the newbies something to aim for, rather than just leaving in the horrid juwel things.

anyway, in all my tanks that have had 10x, i have had no problems so obviously guessing works eh? maybe im just a born guesser?

lol, perhaps. or could it be that, any flow rate, if properly looked after works? unless you know, the flow you are actually using, just saying it works @10x means nothing. two people with the same filter, but different media and or configuration, will get a different flow. so if "YOUR" 10x works for you, and works the the other guy, yet your flow rates are different (in reality), it makes a mockery of the theory.

I'm am not getting at you, per se. but even the "theory" as to how filter makers test their kit, bares little resemblance to reality. even estimation demand some accuracy, to be of use.

lol, Hi bluetooth. the Juwel filters have been a long time, bug bare to me. though i know many find them fine, i found them to be a waste of space. responsible, in my view, for many problems, new owners have. but you can see why juwel still supply them. we cant even agree amongst ourselves, just, what flow and media combinations work, or even why they work. lol, reading back over the posts, we cant even agree IF juwel filters work.lol. so why change something that sells? to be fair, juwel do say their filter is for planted lightly stocked tanks. they even admit that the filter if overpowered. suggesting that cleaning the filter, reduces it effectiveness, by saying that the filter will not work, efficiently, until the white pads are clogged, to some extent.

glad you are ok with the Aqua one. lol i get your point about weight though

 

[Bluetooth]

Yea its a heavy #59###er

Good news today though, come home and the tank has almost cleared, can see the POS juwel box and the aqua one pipes.

3 days with a full bacterial bloom to almost clear, im pretty chuffed =-)

What about the original point though? does more flow rate mean that the nitrifying bacteria grow faster?

 

[Nick16]

one thing we can all agree on is how poor the juwel filters are, take up so much space, and are totally ineffective at filtering and making any flow. The only good thing is hiding the heater but thats easy enough done with a good piece of wood or a lovely echinodorus.

 

[raptorrex]

Yea its a heavy #59###er

Good news today though, come home and the tank has almost cleared, can see the POS juwel box and the aqua one pipes.

3 days with a full bacterial bloom to almost clear, im pretty chuffed =-)

What about the original point though? does more flow rate mean that the nitrifying bacteria grow faster?

more effective growth, perhaps. but you need to get a colony started first. whatever the flow, bacteria take a specific time to grow, or should i say to double. i guess nothing can change that. i do think it will be quicker than the juwel could do, just a opinion, its miserable flow really cant help.

one thing we can all agree on is how poor the juwel filters are, take up so much space, and are totally ineffective at filtering and making any flow. The only good thing is hiding the heater but thats easy enough done with a good piece of wood or a lovely echinodorus.

agreed. mind you, i have had to wear a tin hat after saying that on here, more than once.

 

[raptorrex]

What about the original point though? does more flow rate mean that the nitrifying bacteria grow faster?

how about polling the rest of the forum, with this question? sure, the thread will, on occasion, get out of hand. even so, if you read, and digest, the reply s. you may well get a better handle on the subject.

I have found threads dont need to reach a conclusion. but the information/views they contain, help me come to conclusions, of my own.