DoubleDutch
Fish Gatherer
I am definitely sure they won't color up as pandas. They are smudge-spots or hybrids. My hope is set on them not showing a black dorsal which is pretty prominent in panda-offspring!!Akasha72 said:
Hybrid Cories?
- Thread starter Akasha72
- Start date
HarpyFishLover
Fishaholic
I can't quite understand what's wrong with a hybrid cory. Seems like they'd be much more interesting... kind of a "two-in-one" fish...
OP
OP
Akasha72
Warning - Mad Cory Woman
I have no problem with hybrids either. The way I see it is - if they can interbreed in a tank then they can interbreed in the wild. We can not know for certain that some of the cories found in the wild are not hybrids. There are many cories similar to the panda cory for instance, and we know that the panda is notorious for interbreeding and so that does beg the question 'is the panda cory interbreeding in the wild too'
DoubleDutch
Fish Gatherer
It's a good question cause a lot of fish are hybridized nowadays. I think it is a shame btw cause Mother Nature creatures are beautiful enough to me. But that's my personal opinion. There are wild hybrids indeed, but often infertile.
Assuming that the ones that hybridize in tanks will also in the wild isn't totally correct though. Pandas fi live in Peru and never will "meet" any Smudge Spot Cory that lives in another riversystem Brazil.
Besides of that the funny thing is there will be less hybridizing when there are enough males / females of the own species (even in tanks).
I think it is a common agreement in our hobby not to bring Cory-hybrids in the trade but that's not based on cleat knowledge. Only know I am trying to prevent it.
So and now I am gonna walk my Deep (hybrid dog - sheep).
Assuming that the ones that hybridize in tanks will also in the wild isn't totally correct though. Pandas fi live in Peru and never will "meet" any Smudge Spot Cory that lives in another riversystem Brazil.
Besides of that the funny thing is there will be less hybridizing when there are enough males / females of the own species (even in tanks).
I think it is a common agreement in our hobby not to bring Cory-hybrids in the trade but that's not based on cleat knowledge. Only know I am trying to prevent it.
So and now I am gonna walk my Deep (hybrid dog - sheep).
OP
OP
Akasha72
Warning - Mad Cory Woman
my dog is a 'hybrid' too and she's 13, still walks 5 miles plus per day and has never had any illness - other than a slight intolerance to certain foods. When it comes to dogs - the 'hybrids' are healthier, fitter and live much much longer.
Regarding my fish though - I did mention on my other thread (place your bets) that I have a cory in my main that survived a spawn. I've been watching it grow and develop and all attempts to catch it have failed and so I'm letting it stay. It's now almost as big as my male panda's. To begin with it's colours were washed out but as time is going on the black spot at the tail is turning from grey to black, it's dorsal is now darkening too ... the only thing still grey is the eye patches. It's body has some grey lines - but I have other panda cories with the same grey lines in places .... am I to think that all my panda's are hybrids or am I to just consider that some are slow to develop colour?
My panda group started as a four but 2 (now three) have been born in the tank ... when it comes to genetics I can not know for sure that the original 4 are pure panda
Regarding my fish though - I did mention on my other thread (place your bets) that I have a cory in my main that survived a spawn. I've been watching it grow and develop and all attempts to catch it have failed and so I'm letting it stay. It's now almost as big as my male panda's. To begin with it's colours were washed out but as time is going on the black spot at the tail is turning from grey to black, it's dorsal is now darkening too ... the only thing still grey is the eye patches. It's body has some grey lines - but I have other panda cories with the same grey lines in places .... am I to think that all my panda's are hybrids or am I to just consider that some are slow to develop colour?
My panda group started as a four but 2 (now three) have been born in the tank ... when it comes to genetics I can not know for sure that the original 4 are pure panda
I've been following this thread with interest. DoubleDutch has hit the mark.
First, let me say that hybridization in fish is a very different and much more serious issue than hybrid dog or cat breeds. Dogs and cats are domesticated animals, and no one is going to have much concern over any of these somehow establishing themselves in the natural ecosystem and thus interfering with the gene pool of wild species. But this is a serious threat with fish.
Some of the fish we maintain are endangered in the wild, at serious risk of disappearing completely; some already have. Re-establishing wild populations from aquarium-bred fish would be a significant help to our planet. But this requires pure wild strains. Introducing hybrids could have quite the opposite result. The complex web of life as we know it has order built in through evolution; accidentally or even deliberately affecting this order in one's fish tank is one thing, but then introducing that change into the wild is quite another.
The point about these species never encountering each other in the wild is very true. As is the observation that in the relatively few situations when this does occur, for reasons of nature the fish never seem to cross-breed. This is something that will usually only occur when we put these species into an artificial environment such as the aquarium. Fish in the habitat will continue to evolve as a distinct species, not through hybridization.
As responsible aquarists, we should absolutely never introduce "contaminated" species into the trade. If these hybrids occur in our aquaria, then they should live their lives to the end in those aquaria. It is no good thinking others will somehow protect things; it is better not to provide the opportunity in the first place.
Byron.
First, let me say that hybridization in fish is a very different and much more serious issue than hybrid dog or cat breeds. Dogs and cats are domesticated animals, and no one is going to have much concern over any of these somehow establishing themselves in the natural ecosystem and thus interfering with the gene pool of wild species. But this is a serious threat with fish.
Some of the fish we maintain are endangered in the wild, at serious risk of disappearing completely; some already have. Re-establishing wild populations from aquarium-bred fish would be a significant help to our planet. But this requires pure wild strains. Introducing hybrids could have quite the opposite result. The complex web of life as we know it has order built in through evolution; accidentally or even deliberately affecting this order in one's fish tank is one thing, but then introducing that change into the wild is quite another.
The point about these species never encountering each other in the wild is very true. As is the observation that in the relatively few situations when this does occur, for reasons of nature the fish never seem to cross-breed. This is something that will usually only occur when we put these species into an artificial environment such as the aquarium. Fish in the habitat will continue to evolve as a distinct species, not through hybridization.
As responsible aquarists, we should absolutely never introduce "contaminated" species into the trade. If these hybrids occur in our aquaria, then they should live their lives to the end in those aquaria. It is no good thinking others will somehow protect things; it is better not to provide the opportunity in the first place.
Byron.
OP
OP
Akasha72
Warning - Mad Cory Woman
so what would you guys have me do? Am I to kill perfectly healthy fish because they may be a hybrid?
Firstly I have no concrete evidence that a smudge spot female bred with a male panda as they spawned during the night when I was not around.
Secondly I have no concrete evidence that my existing panda adults are 'pure bred'
Thirdly, I can not keep these babies. I don't have the space. I can't give them to my Dad for his tank as he has gravel substrate and doesn't want to change to sand
That leaves me with speaking to my lfs to ask for their help. They may agree with you guys - that they don't want possible hybrids entering the trade which leaves me with healthy fish that no-one wants .... which leads them to the death jug and that is plain cruel.
Whilst I agree about hybrids not breeding with wild specimens I have to ask the question "what are the chances of this happening?" Well, I live in the U.K far far away from South America where cories come from. The chances of possible hybrid cories coming into contact with wild cories are minimal - bordering on zero. Which leads me back to the lfs and taking these perfectly healthy little fish to them to allow them to decide their fate. I know the guys at the lfs very well and I'm 99% certain that these cories will go on sale with a warning to the buyer that they may be a hybrid and therefore possibly infertile themselves. If that be the case then these little fish will give someone some pleasure while they live in another person's tank with no chance of them 'infecting' any pure breds
Jeez I feel like Harry Potter now
Firstly I have no concrete evidence that a smudge spot female bred with a male panda as they spawned during the night when I was not around.
Secondly I have no concrete evidence that my existing panda adults are 'pure bred'
Thirdly, I can not keep these babies. I don't have the space. I can't give them to my Dad for his tank as he has gravel substrate and doesn't want to change to sand
That leaves me with speaking to my lfs to ask for their help. They may agree with you guys - that they don't want possible hybrids entering the trade which leaves me with healthy fish that no-one wants .... which leads them to the death jug and that is plain cruel.
Whilst I agree about hybrids not breeding with wild specimens I have to ask the question "what are the chances of this happening?" Well, I live in the U.K far far away from South America where cories come from. The chances of possible hybrid cories coming into contact with wild cories are minimal - bordering on zero. Which leads me back to the lfs and taking these perfectly healthy little fish to them to allow them to decide their fate. I know the guys at the lfs very well and I'm 99% certain that these cories will go on sale with a warning to the buyer that they may be a hybrid and therefore possibly infertile themselves. If that be the case then these little fish will give someone some pleasure while they live in another person's tank with no chance of them 'infecting' any pure breds
Jeez I feel like Harry Potter now
I cannot believe that you have no space for half a dozen (or less) corys. The chances of eggs and/or fry escaping predation in most tanks is minimal at best. I know I have spawning all the time, and I have 12 species of cory in my 70g tank. But the fry that survive, which has so far only been the ones I happen to come across and rescue from the canister filter when I clean it, remain in the tank. A few fish will not affect anything. It's not like you have livebearers producing hundreds of fry every month or two.
I guess there is a principle here which not everyone accepts. And as for relying on fish stores, that I would never do.
Byron.
I guess there is a principle here which not everyone accepts. And as for relying on fish stores, that I would never do.
Byron.
OP
OP
Akasha72
Warning - Mad Cory Woman
with bottom dwellers I have - in a 4ft tank
7 Peppered cories
7 panda cories
5 bronze cories
5 melini cories
3 smudge-spot cories
3 SAE's (which are MASSIVE)
and a BN pleco
Do I have the space for 6 more cories? No I don't
7 Peppered cories
7 panda cories
5 bronze cories
5 melini cories
3 smudge-spot cories
3 SAE's (which are MASSIVE)
and a BN pleco
Do I have the space for 6 more cories? No I don't
Akasha72 said:
I would not agree. I have 45 corys in my 4-foot 70g, and three whiptails. Plus the 60 upper fish, though they are not substrate dwellers.
And I still say that six corys are not going to make any difference whatsoever here.
DoubleDutch
Fish Gatherer
25 venezuelans in 3 ft tank here. Corys will do great on (rounded) gravel btw so maybe your dads tank could be a possibility.
DoubleDutch
Fish Gatherer
Huh ??? What's wrong with this thread?Akasha72 said:
OP
OP
Akasha72
Warning - Mad Cory Woman
because NO ONE has the right to tell me what fish I should or shouldn't keep in my tank. That's my choice. If I keep or move these babies on is up to me. If they go to the lfs they will have full knowledge that these fish MAY be a hybrid what they then choose to do it up to them
Anyway, as I said I wish I'd never said owt ... bowing out
Anyway, as I said I wish I'd never said owt ... bowing out
DoubleDutch
Fish Gatherer
Is any one telling you ?
There is a serious discussion going on what to do with "possible" hybrids and trying to think of a sollution for this.
You might not like the answers given (serious don't know why btw) but nobody is rude or telling you what to do in my opinion. Asking to remove the thread cause you don't like the answers is a complete overreaction in my opinion.
Think Byron is someone with a great knowledge and is able to say things better than I am (english isn't my home- language).
If I'd have some hybrids (not putting the ones together) they would get old in my tanks in one way or the other.
Regards Aad
There is a serious discussion going on what to do with "possible" hybrids and trying to think of a sollution for this.
You might not like the answers given (serious don't know why btw) but nobody is rude or telling you what to do in my opinion. Asking to remove the thread cause you don't like the answers is a complete overreaction in my opinion.
Think Byron is someone with a great knowledge and is able to say things better than I am (english isn't my home- language).
If I'd have some hybrids (not putting the ones together) they would get old in my tanks in one way or the other.
Regards Aad
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