Hunting with the Badger 2024

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, just returned from my final big game hunt of the year, with no antelope. The season doesn't close until Thursday, but we're supposed to get around 8" of snow tonight, and I don't want an antelope THAT bad.

Despite the sad result (sorry, @JuiceBox52 , no jerky this year) I had kind of a cool hunt tonight. This was the first time I've ever been rained out of an antelope hunt! Guess the weather didn't get the memo that this is supposed to be the DESERT!

Despite the weather, I did put a sneak on a big herd of animals with supernatural eyesight, through country with very little cover, with predictable results:

(not my picture but it captures the experience)

Drove around in the rain for a while, moseying back toward the main road, since desert roads around here have an annoying habit of turning into grease when they get wet. Soon found myself on this trail:

Yep, it's still a road and it's still in use. One of the better roads in the area, in fact. There are a few LDS historical sites in the area, this also being the Mormon and California trails (they split into separate trails on the other side of South Pass, a few miles to the west of here), and the Mormon reenactors still push their handcarts up this stretch every summer.

I followed it until dark. To heck with the rain; wouldn't it be really cool to kill an antelope right on the Oregon trail?!
Anybody remember the game?

It's harder in real life. A lot more interesting too.

I didn't find any antelope, but I did get to negotiate some legit wagon ruts. In the dark, after a downpour. Not the smartest thing I've ever done, but an interesting experience. It was a little sketchy in a 4wd pickup. In an ox-drawn Conestoga? Or even worse, a fully loaded hand cart? No thanks. Our ancestors were tough people, boys and girls.

Well, I guess that's about it for hunting this year. Thanks for coming along.

 

[MattW]

Soon found myself on this trail:

Yep, it's still a road and it's still in use. One of the better roads in the area, in fact. There are a few LDS historical sites in the area, this also being the Mormon and California trails (they split into separate trails on the other side of South Pass, a few miles to the west of here), and the Mormon reenactors still push their handcarts up this stretch every summer.

I followed it until dark. To heck with the rain; wouldn't it be really cool to kill an antelope right on the Oregon trail?!
Anybody remember the game?

It's harder in real life. A lot more interesting too.

That's amazing! Part of my history course at high school was focused on the US from the 1790s to the late 1890s. I remember studying the Westward Expansion and its impacts like manifest destiny and the Indian Removal Acts. It's amazing to see the trail still in use! That game as well! They let us play that after we completed our essay on the donner party. Or as we called it the dinner party pardon the pun

 

[WhistlingBadger]

That's amazing! Part of my history course at high school was focused on the US from the 1790s to the late 1890s. I remember studying the Westward Expansion and its impacts like manifest destiny and the Indian Removal Acts. It's amazing to see the trail still in use! That game as well! They let us play that after we completed our essay on the donner party. Or as we called it the dinner party pardon the pun

 

[Seisage]

It was really interesting reading through this thread, as someone with a relatively newfound interest in hunting and fishing. You've done a great job illustrating what some of the process can be like, and it's definitely furthered my desire to pursue hunting as a practice if/when I can.

I was always on the sensitive side regarding hunting as a child. I gave up meat altogether as a teenager, initially for ethical reasons, but it eventually just became a habit once I grew out of opposing meat consumption ideologically. I was vegetarian for over 10 years, and have only just recently worked fish back into my diet. It's a change I've been very happy about, and although I don't think I'd ever purchase meat from a grocery store ever again, I've certainly considered eating wild game — as long as I was the one who killed the animal.

I don't have much in the way of means to take up hunting right now, but my father and I have talked about potentially going on an elk hunting trip with one of my uncles at some point. I certainly have an interest in it. I enjoy the idea of doing the work myself, being outdoors, and putting in the effort to know the animals and their habits. If I'm going to eat meat, I want to do it my way, on my own terms, with the animal's life in my own hands. It seems right to bear that responsibility.

There's a lot I'd need to learn, a lot I'd need to read up on and practice. But last I checked, I'm a pretty decent shot (both with bows and with rifles, although I'd only feel comfortable hunting with a firearm as a novice), and... I have no delicate way to put this... I love butchering things. In my science education and career, I've dissected quite a lot of animals, and my favorite thing is taking the animal apart, piece by piece. Same with filleting fish. I enjoy the precision of it. So, learning and practicing aside, I like to think I've got a good foundation going. Hopefully I'll have the means and ability to properly take up the practice sooner rather than later.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

@Seisage There isn't a thing wrong with finding joy in butchering. If you think about it reasonably, there's no reason the inside of an animal shouldn't be just as fascinating and beautiful as the outside, and perfecting the skills involved can be quite satisfying. (My new, stainless steel meat grinder is rather satisfying too!) The only difference is that the animal has to be dead for anyone to experience the inside, and that's a legit emotional factor. If you accept that death is part of life, then yes, there is a beauty in the butchering process.

The big problem with hunting is that it is so uncertain. I took it for granted that I'd be able to go out and kill an antelope, but they didn't act the way I've come to expect, and I came home empty. Several elk outsmarted me with my bow, though I was able to go back and kill one of them with my rifle. We still buy a lot of meat from the grocery store, and you probably will to if you decide to eat meat. Our ancestors lived on what they could hunt and grow themselves, but mostly they didn't have careers, and bag limits, and license fees, and property lines...those that did, as in medieval Europe, often had to choose between poaching and starvation.

My point is that it takes a lot of time to develop the skills necessary (I am still learning, as will be obvious to anyone who reads my hunting stories! ), and even once you have the skills, there is no substitute for simply putting in the time out in the wild country. Hunting is very time-consuming, and sometimes you put in the time, and do everything right, and it just doesn't work. Wild animals don't want to be killed, and they can be downright ornery and uncooperative about it! Finding the time is hard in the modern world. Even with modern firearms and other technology, success is far from guaranteed.

So yes, learn to hunt if you can. But don't depend on it for all of your meat needs, at least not at first. Doing so puts a lot of pressure on a hunter, which can rob the experience of its joy and meaning, and even push one to act unethically. The first priority is to get out there and enjoy the experience, be part of the predator-prey dynamic of the natural world, get a clearer view of one's place in the natural scheme of things, learn some skills and humility and awe at God's creation, think the old thoughts and feel the old feelings. The kill, the meat, and all the benefits that accompany it, are just bonuses.

I love it.

 

[emeraldking]

I'm totally not offended when people hunt. But it should be because of the right reasons. My granddad (from my mom's side) was a hunter as well. But many people in Indonesia during that time period were hunters. And it was needed to feed themselves. He and many others were land owners. Partially, that land was also used to grow their own vegetables and fruit. But also livestock. A second reason why hunting was needed was that those wild animals were a threat to their livestock and crops.
I've been to certain places in the past where we went into jungles. To feed ourselves during those days, hunting was also necessary. For not all crops that were growing in those jungles were edible. Or could even cause other physical issues. I myself didn't participate the hunt itself. For we had hunters joining us. But I'll never forget the howling or even crying of certain animals just before they were killed. As if they knew that they would die in minutes. I was glad we had some hunters that would kill with a rifle. But we also had times that we had hunters with spears. Most of the times, an animal wasn't dead when hit by a spear. The sound such an animal makes before it was finally killed got me the shivers. That sound is so intense. But I always do realize that for those people, hunting is a normal thing and a necessary thing to do. That does make me that I can put it into perspective again.

 

[Oldspartan]

This a thread I will read in full at some point in the near future.

I am from a hunting family but do not hunt very much and depend on others to put me in the right spot. I participate in the hunting party usually two weekends each year, mostly for comradery although the others are quite serious about the endeavor. They spend time in the woods well before the season, have tree stands and field cameras in various locations.

I am a meat eater though, if the GOOD Lord had wanted me to eat beans and peas I would have been born a cow.

I have no issue with butchering, cannot say I like the process, but am fairly adept at it. The past three years we have purchased on the hoof and had the processing done by others. This has gotten costly though, 2.25 dollars a pound dressed weight, so this year we will be purchasing a hog and a baby beef and doing the chore ourselves. I am fortunate to have a meat saw, sausage machine, and a feather plucker. For next year Linda is insisting on again raising a couple of hogs, a baby beefer, meat chickens and a few turkeys. I am not thrilled but have agreed it is a smart idea, just time demanding and freedom limiting. She is on a "get self-sufficient kick again".

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I am a meat eater though, if the GOOD Lord had wanted me to eat beans and peas I would have been born a cow.

There used to be a bumper sticker that was popular around here that said, "If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"

 

[GaryE]

This is always loaded. I can't see much of a difference between someone going out with a gun to shoot an antelope, or me going out with a net to catch a future aquarium fish. In both cases, we're taking a creature out of its community and social/breeding population. On a species level, what we catch, or kill, is out of its world now.
I see all our aquarium fish as sort of zombies - creatures of the grey world between life and death, as part of a species. I think the same can be argued for domesticated food animals. It's a subjective view that favours wild animals - I see them as doing what they're evolved to do, and I don't like ruining that.
My fish can live full, long lives in the best set ups I can manage to provide, but they don't matter to their world anymore, just to mine.
For the individual animal, death isn't part of life - it's the end of it. But the wider picture, the species, lives on.

There's a cruel (to me) practice in tropical countries, in that wounded animals are brought to market alive as that slows spoiling. It's very hard to see a wounded, and obviously suffering forest antelope's eyes as it looks at you. Would I feel the same for a rat? Probably not, though to see any wounded animal suffer isn't easy.

So unless I were very hungry, I wouldn't choose to go out and shoot animals or catch food fish. I like it when I walk out back, and the deer look at me, and let me pass like any other mammal going about its business. I don't mind if they class me with a moose rather than with a coyote or a bear.

Give me a good net and a tropical stream, and I'll be in there using everything I know about habitat, patterns of behaviour, water flow etc to catch fish. So I can't be against hunting. What I like to do is no better, or no worse.

I like plants. They are kind of fascinating, but I eat them too. I don't believe there are higher or lower life forms - if it's alive, it's remarkable. But everything eats things that grow, and edible growth is life. Whether we eat algae, mushrooms, deer or goldfish, we kill living things. Later this morning I'll take out a shining razor blade and go kill algae off the glass of a fishtank. Then I'll clear some plants from dirt I want to place seeds that need to overwinter in. Whether I like it or not, I'm like a cartoon Tasmanian devil.

I'll also fuss over some baby tetras, changing their water and giving them great food so they can grow up and be a beautiful shoal of fish that maybe I can care for for several generations. My farmer instinct seems stronger than my hunter one.

As for butchery - it's just dissection in a hurry.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

This is always loaded. I can't see much of a difference between someone going out with a gun to shoot an antelope, or me going out with a net to catch a future aquarium fish. In both cases, we're taking a creature out of its community and social/breeding population. On a species level, what we catch, or kill, is out of its world now.
I see all our aquarium fish as sort of zombies - creatures of the grey world between life and death, as part of a species. I think the same can be argued for domesticated food animals. It's a subjective view that favours wild animals - I see them as doing what they're evolved to do, and I don't like ruining that.
My fish can live full, long lives in the best set ups I can manage to provide, but they don't matter to their world anymore, just to mine.
For the individual animal, death isn't part of life - it's the end of it. But the wider picture, the species, lives on.

There's a cruel (to me) practice in tropical countries, in that wounded animals are brought to market alive as that slows spoiling. It's very hard to see a wounded, and obviously suffering forest antelope's eyes as it looks at you. Would I feel the same for a rat? Probably not, though to see any wounded animal suffer isn't easy.

So unless I were very hungry, I wouldn't choose to go out and shoot animals or catch food fish. I like it when I walk out back, and the deer look at me, and let me pass like any other mammal going about its business. I don't mind if they class me with a moose rather than with a coyote or a bear.

Give me a good net and a tropical stream, and I'll be in there using everything I know about habitat, patterns of behaviour, water flow etc to catch fish. So I can't be against hunting. What I like to do is no better, or no worse.

I like plants. They are kind of fascinating, but I eat them too. I don't believe there are higher or lower life forms - if it's alive, it's remarkable. But everything eats things that grow, and edible growth is life. Whether we eat algae, mushrooms, deer or goldfish, we kill living things. Later this morning I'll take out a shining razor blade and go kill algae off the glass of a fishtank. Then I'll clear some plants from dirt I want to place seeds that need to overwinter in. Whether I like it or not, I'm like a cartoon Tasmanian devil.

I'll also fuss over some baby tetras, changing their water and giving them great food so they can grow up and be a beautiful shoal of fish that maybe I can care for for several generations. My farmer instinct seems stronger than my hunter one.

As for butchery - it's just dissection in a hurry.

This is a very insightful comment.

 

[Oldspartan]

"Advanced" societies, or at least many in "advanced" societies pretend meat and produce grow in the cooler sections at the grocery store. Frankly I get a charge out of the way some people think, or do not think, about what they eat.

 

[GaryE]

I would much rather harvest from spaghetti trees than buy ground beef. Except when it's raining.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

"Advanced" societies, or at least many in "advanced" societies pretend meat and produce grow in the cooler sections at the grocery store. Frankly I get a charge out of the way some people think, or do not think, about what they eat.

Yeah, that can get into some deep waters too, but it's worth considering. Not understanding one's place in the food chain is a luxury of prosperous, industrialized societies. Those that live closer to the earth and/or closer to poverty have no choice, as in @emeraldking's story above. They don't just understand it; it's just normal life.

I've also thought a lot about how "ethical hunting" is a luxury of prosperous societies. I was sick about the elk that I hit but didn't kill, and spent days questioning whether I should have taken the shot. But if my family were starving, I would probably take every hail-mary shot that presented itself. I very much prefer being able to pass on questionable shots and aspire to the one-shot-one-kill ideal. But that means being at peace with not making a kill. To me that's a slight emotional bummer; to a true hunter-gatherer, that's a life-and-death catastrophe.

Some of the Native Americans around here used to hunt with arrows smeared with dogbane sap. The poison presumably allowed them to take any shot that presented itself, and greatly increased the likelihood of bringing home some meat. Hit a deer with an arrow like that anywhere with a blood vessel, and it's going to die of a heart attack within a mile or so. (At least, that's what a local ethnobotanist told me) If you're a good tracker, soup's on. But for me, a modern guy with grocery store backup who has to consider not only my own feelings but those of the game warden? No way I'd do that. And I'm grateful that I don't need to.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I posted this in another thread but thought I'd share it here too. I decided to spare you the details of turning a raw elk head into a skull mount...suffice it to say it ain't pretty. But we got it done and now he's hanging up in the garage, because that's the only room in the house with a tall enough ceiling.

He had kind of a weird rack: Really thick beams, nice brow tines, smallish 2s, 3s, and 5s, but nice big swords. Gives him kind of a top-heavy look. The tine tips are all dinged up from fighting, and he has an antler-tip-shaped scar in the top of his skull, right between his eyes. That must have really hurt. So, this guy was real scrapper. I love it.