How Some Lfs Sales People Are So Ignorant

[killudead]

Last week i was searching for a KH test. They looked at my funny, and pointed me to a ph test.
I mentioned drop checker and I had 2 heads.
Although i dont know everything, i find it funny that i talk about things they no nothing about. So i end up explaining it to them to help them understand better and hopefully help someone else that is looking for something that i schooled them on.

One thing i really think should be mentioned that when buying a tank, there is so much more that goes with it.
I understand that these are just local kids that like fish. I find that the privately owned shops tend to have more knowledge than petco, petsmart, etc..
i see some posts on here from kids/adults that work at petco type shops, and it is good they are actually taking the time to learn about it.

point is, when i first started my fish tank, i wish that someone could have told me a bit more and then i would/could have been more prepared.
like if you are going to have plants, you need a certain amount of light, What substrate are u using, is it correct for plants? etc..
then at least you get a better idea of what you will need in order to have a functioning planted tank. Instead of making redundant purchases and wishing for the best outcome.
this is the beauty of the web, without places like this, we would not have nearly the amount of fantastic resources that we have now. Life without GPS.... how do you read a map again??? whats a record. (if you have heard this question asked, and been able to answer it, does that make you old?)
so to all on forums like this, i say thank you...

 

[Jazzzz]

A well made piont

i asked for a co2 kit and was told they only do normal tank sealent (you work that out)

shop 2's response to same question was that they did ph tests and that was it.

but you carn't blame the staff, i blame managers, a guided to fishkeeping 3 A4 pages of bullet pionts wouldn't be too hard to read or create shurely

 

[Bignose]

It's almost completely a question of cost and supply and demand. LFSs rarely are big money makers, and are often just treading water or slowly sinking. The owners keep the store open because they love the hobby. Because there is little money, they cannot hire good help. Good in terms of if the person is knowledgeable, they may be able to get a job that pays more than the LFS pretty easily.

Or if the person is accepting of the low wages, they may never have the ability to become a knowledgeable employee -- or they just don't care because they know they can get another job working retail for the same wages almost anywhere. The situation is even worse if there is a big box pet store in the area, because they make money by buying things in bulk and specifically keeping labor costs low (again with the poor employees you get by paying low wages) but they have the advantage of the big corporation behind them. If an LFS employee is making low wages at the LFS, taking the same job with the big box store may be preferable because the big box store may be able to offer more or better benefits with the position -- the advantage of having a corporation behind them.

I guess the best advice is to get to know the owner or the manager that has stayed in the business for a long time because they love the hobby. Find the person for whom it is more than "just a job" -- find the person who is doing it because they love it. Even then, they are still in a position to try to sell you something -- the onus is still on you to do the research before you buy any product or fish. As nice as it would be to find someone to be a perfectly objective advice giver, you really cannot find that in a store. A store owner or employee is always biased toward making a sale. The best thing is to find as many different points of view, research the facts behind people's opinions, and try to choose what you think is best.

 

[killudead]

I am all about the little guy. I prefer to spend my money at my locally owned fish store.
They seem to know abit more, and they generally have a better selection of product.

for instance...
bumble bee gombi..
cant get it at petco, petsmart, etc.. but they had one at walmart.
Went to a little shop about 10 miles from home, thats all the guy has was fish. no other animals. Thats the place to go for knowledge

 

[josh0013]

I never listen to them but I feel their pain. I work retail and I get cussed on a weekly basis because of something that I have no hand in or wasn't properly trained with. Places like Petco and such should really look into training their employees better... they could even advertise it as part of their service. eh... guess its wishful thinking.

 

[Carl the Crimson Wonder]

I agree I work in the pet dept. at my job, I'm the guy who takes care of and sales the fish. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about fish and proper care. I have to say though that they def. don't train any employees about fish. It doesn't help either because the people that come into our store to purchase fish don't know one thing about them. Most of the time they walk up to get a fish with a fish tank in their cart (which they plan on putting the fish into when they get home). So most empoyees have the false sense that they do know a lot about fish because they hardly ever get questions more than "what do I feed the fish?" and "what fish go with this?" so there is no one challenging their knowledge, I hate it, if i was in charge of my pet dept. You would have to prove to me that you knew how to take care of a fish before you can purchase one. I die a little inside when I have to sell a fish to someone.

 

[shelaghfishface]

A well made piont

i asked for a co2 kit and was told they only do normal tank sealent (you work that out)

shop 2's response to same question was that they did ph tests and that was it.

but you carn't blame the staff, i blame managers, a guided to fishkeeping 3 A4 pages of bullet pionts wouldn't be too hard to read or create shurely

that made me laugh!!!

 

[shibby]

sigh lfs bashing again.

im going to start a new thread titled "why are so many people so ignorant" because 9 out of 10 people i deal with on a daily basis dont care, dont listen and just want fish, after dealing with this for a few years im not surprised most lfs workers lose faith.

someone i forget who made a very decent point the other day, most people who work in lfs every day who have people come up to them and say i want that fish, they explain its size, aggresion customer rarely listens and buys it anyway, after a while most workers just give up trying. but when an enthusiuatic, fairly knowledgable customer comes in you will find that same worker enthuism and knowledge return.

after all it is a business if a customer wants to make what i deem an ethically wrong decision i cant refuse, at the end of the day its there decision, and there money.

though of course there are also some people working that just care about money.


hope this makes sense im awful at wording things, and usually frustrated at people who bad mouth lfs when they dont know how frustating some customers can be

 

[Bignose]

sigh lfs bashing again.

im going to start a new thread titled "why are so many people so ignorant" because 9 out of 10 people i deal with on a daily basis dont care, dont listen and just want fish, after dealing with this for a few years im not surprised most lfs workers lose faith.

someone i forget who made a very decent point the other day, most people who work in lfs every day who have people come up to them and say i want that fish, they explain its size, aggresion customer rarely listens and buys it anyway, after a while most workers just give up trying. but when an enthusiuatic, fairly knowledgable customer comes in you will find that same worker enthuism and knowledge return.

after all it is a business if a customer wants to make what i deem an ethically wrong decision i cant refuse, at the end of the day its there decision, and there money.

though of course there are also some people working that just care about money.


hope this makes sense im awful at wording things, and usually frustrated at people who bad mouth lfs when they dont know how frustating some customers can be

This is a big part of it, too. It is a volume game, especially at the big box stores. If you were the store owner, would you rather spend a lot of money on training your staff -- again with the knowledge that you are paying them low wages and they aren't going to care because they can get another equally low wage job any time they want -- or would you rather stock a bunch more fish that can be sold? Especially when it has to easily by 9 out of 10 customers don't know and don't care about issues like stocking and cycling and whatnot. The fish are an accessory. And, a lot of this comes down to the fact that if the fish dies -- well, it's just 99 cents to replace it so who cares? So, it is in the store's best interest to stock as many 99 cent fish as it can, so that there are lots of pretty colors for the customers who don't care about anything else.

What really needs to happen is that there aren't any fish less than $10. That way, it is at least in most people's best interest to take a little more care of it. Once people start caring, knowledgeable staff members become valuable because they will be able to help people take the proper care of the fish. The stores may not be able to stock as many at $10 a pop, but they will be healthy, and will help make sure that they end up only in the hands of someone who is going to take proper care of them.

But, I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen. It is all about volume today, and making as many sales as possible. Sales would definitely plummet if every fish was $10 or more. So, you just have to make do with the situation as it currently is. And I am not bashing the LFSs -- they are just providing what the customers want. They can't do it the "right" way and still make a living, so doing it in a "sort-of right" way is better than not doing it at all.

 

[killudead]

I just think that when you ask a question and they cant answer it, the result can be frustrating.
I work in sales, your not telling me anything i dont already know.
i call 90 people a day, 90% of those are VM, the few i talk to, some are nice, some are rude..

 

[modaz]

sigh lfs bashing again.

im going to start a new thread titled "why are so many people so ignorant" because 9 out of 10 people i deal with on a daily basis dont care, dont listen and just want fish, after dealing with this for a few years im not surprised most lfs workers lose faith.

someone i forget who made a very decent point the other day, most people who work in lfs every day who have people come up to them and say i want that fish, they explain its size, aggresion customer rarely listens and buys it anyway, after a while most workers just give up trying. but when an enthusiuatic, fairly knowledgable customer comes in you will find that same worker enthuism and knowledge return.

after all it is a business if a customer wants to make what i deem an ethically wrong decision i cant refuse, at the end of the day its there decision, and there money.

though of course there are also some people working that just care about money.


hope this makes sense im awful at wording things, and usually frustrated at people who bad mouth lfs when they dont know how frustating some customers can be

agreed! but if they dont listen to me i ask them to leave and go google hard, they always come back with a little knowledge added, i dont care about not getting the money for the sale b/c these people who dont listen buy the fish and it then dies, who gets the blame for that?? the LFS for selling diseased fish, a reputation of diseased fish whether it is true or not travels very quickly. Thats why i say NO and mean NO.

 

[shibby]

it may be farfetched and not on the same wavelength but i always believe people should do there own research im not there to talk through every detail just to answer questions that i get asked as best i can, no one knows everything though.

i mean i dont buy a car and expect the person selling to teach me to drive

id research if im buying a dog, cat small animal or reptile

heck i research for everything i buy and i would assume most people will, what shocks me is why they dont for fish ........ and if they dont research i have no sympathy for them.

im pretty sure buyer beware protects most people, meaning its the buyers fault if its incompatable. some people just dont seem to understand however and see fish as an accersory

i figured along time ago if im correct in my decisions n advice thats all i can do, i cant control other peoples decisions, so hence why i cant say NO to a customer its really there decision to make with the information recieved.

 

[modaz]

it is hard, coz they look at you and they know your gunna say NO and give you that sad puppy look which hits the heart but i just say in my head DEAD FISH and that over rules what the customer wants, I'm not in this profession to give in to clueless customers and their demands. It's been hard this week with people buying tanks and then sending their children to choose their fish, ive had to countless times say WAIT A MINUTE please and explain, I'm quite cutting with my customers, at this point you can see their minds ticking over and thinking, this is when i ask them what their kids are feel like when they wake up to a dead fish and cry all over xmas and it's no point in going and buying the fish else where as the conclusion will still be the same, they always come back to us, the ones who do go and buy elsewhere b/c they do come back and openly say they did and the fish died so they've come back to us. Where a sale is lost when saying NO more sales are gained when they return as most of the time they do to admit that you were right in saying NO. Im happy, the fish i sell are happy and the customer in the end will be happy but they just have to wait.

 

[Craster]

it may be farfetched and not on the same wavelength but i always believe people should do there own research im not there to talk through every detail just to answer questions that i get asked as best i can, no one knows everything though.

i mean i dont buy a car and expect the person selling to teach me to drive

That's an awful analogy. I expect someone selling me a car to be able to tell me what sort of fuel I should put in it, how often it needs servicing, how many miles I can get out of a tank, what the top speed is, the 0-60 time etc etc.

In the same way I would expect someone working in a fish shop to know at very least the essentials (not everything, but a good knowledge of the basics). I expect them to know about cycling, feeding, and maintenance. I expect them to know for each of their fish what to feed it, how compatible it is with small fish/long-finned fish/aggressive fish. Whether it should be kept singly, in pairs, or in shoals. I also expect them to be able to sex them, where possible.

Of course, new staff take a while to learn these things, but if they don't know something I expect them to be able to find me someone else who does.

 

[andywg]

i mean i dont buy a car and expect the person selling to teach me to drive

That's an awful analogy. I expect someone selling me a car to be able to tell me what sort of fuel I should put in it, how often it needs servicing, how many miles I can get out of a tank, what the top speed is, the 0-60 time etc etc.

But would you expect them to tell you how to drive it, at what time to fill up the fuel tank and other such things? Also, do you really rely on the salesperson to give you a true representation of the car compared to other cars that are available?

In the same way I would expect someone working in a fish shop to know at very least the essentials (not everything, but a good knowledge of the basics). I expect them to know about cycling,

Cycling can be done either with ammonia or with fish. Most lfs will do it with fish as that is the way it has been done for years, hence the adding a few fish at a time over intervals. It's just that many lfs do not refer it to cycling so much as setting up the tank. Do we criticise an lfs for not knowing a name which has only become used in any great amounts on the internet?

feeding, and maintenance.

How often to feed and maintain is very much a personal thing. While some people feed twice a day and do water changes every couple of days, others feed twice a week and might not change the water for two weeks. It's all very much a personal thing and based on how you do it.

I expect them to know for each of their fish what to feed it, how compatible it is with small fish/long-finned fish/aggressive fish. Whether it should be kept singly, in pairs, or in shoals. I also expect them to be able to sex them, where possible.

And here's the rub; there are no hard and fast rules in keeping fish. What works for one may not work for another, what some people suggest as being acceptable others are vehemently against. Many on here will be up in arms at the suggestion of keeping a betta in a community tank or with guppies. I did both and never had any issues. Others would cry at keeping neons in with large RBP, yet a member of this forum did so with no issue.

Of course, new staff take a while to learn these things, but if they don't know something I expect them to be able to find me someone else who does.

My experience of most members on this forum is not that they want a knowledgeable and experienced fishkeeper (as many of those use "older" techniques) but rather they want one who will tell them advice which matches the narrow experience band of most posters on this forum.

The simple point remains: Caveat emptor; buyer beware.