How Some Lfs Sales People Are So Ignorant

[LauraFrog]

Daz, I totally agree with your philosophy and your treatment of difficult or ignorant customers. The problem is that you have a brain. This is why it's not going to be widespread.

I think the other problem is that a lot of salespeople ARE ignorant... when they genuinely don't know that an oscar will eat everything in the tank, they can't tell the customer.

 

[Craster]

And here's the rub; there are no hard and fast rules in keeping fish. What works for one may not work for another, what some people suggest as being acceptable others are vehemently against. Many on here will be up in arms at the suggestion of keeping a betta in a community tank or with guppies. I did both and never had any issues. Others would cry at keeping neons in with large RBP, yet a member of this forum did so with no issue.

While I understand what you're saying, there are some hard and fast rules about fishkeeping, and those are the things I expect an employee to know.

#You have to cycle a tank - whether you do it fishless or fish-in, it still needs to be done. "Leave it to stand for a week and then it'll be fine for fish" is categorically wrong, there's no interpretation there.
#Tap water needs to be dechlorinated before it goes in your tank

That sort of thing.

Also, knowing your stock is paramount - in whatever sector of retail you work in. Saying "I don't know anything about these, we've only had them in two weeks" is pretty unforgiveable when it's your job to look after them. Dry stock, too - not knowing what someone's talking about when they ask for a kH test kit is bad.

A good employee is the check on a bad customer - You can't blame people for keeping a common plec in a 10g tank when the shop assistant has told them it's a perfect algae eater for them.

 

[Bignose]

#Tap water needs to be dechlorinated before it goes in your tank

Even your "hard and fast rule" here is wrong. There are many members who don't dechlorinate their water before using it with no adverse effects.

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry2194548"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry2194548[/URL] This one is a pretty good recent discussion about this

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry1341402"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry1341402[/URL] This one has the citations of scientific journal articles that explains why chlorinated water isn't all that bad -- the bacteria will consume the the amine portion of the chloramine and then the chlorine off-gasses pretty quickly.

And not to keep harping on it here, but if you changed the water 100% every day (or even more often) you wouldn't have to cycle. This is how a lot of people keep bettas -- in a cup that they change the entire contents of the water every day. I do think that some sort of tank with a drain and a constant fill from a water source may not cycle in the same way as we think of it.

As was said above, there are very, very few rules that are are truly right 100% of the time.

 

[joecoral]

sigh lfs bashing again.

im going to start a new thread titled "why are so many people so ignorant" because 9 out of 10 people i deal with on a daily basis dont care, dont listen and just want fish, after dealing with this for a few years im not surprised most lfs workers lose faith.

I could not agree more! The number of times I have to deal with people who just want "that fish" no matter how hard I try to explain it will outgrow / kill everything / die in their tank to the point I have to refuse to sell to them makes me sick.
The number of people who dont care about the welfare of the fish and just want it for the sake of it are mind boggling.
Having said that, I do have a lot of customer who gladly listen to and accept my advice, hell some even thank me for it, so it's not all bad, and does make you feel good inside to hear a customer tell you how happy they are with how their tank is from your advice.
What I can't stress enough is (and I follow this advice myself) not to rely on the LFS. Whilst some are very knowledgable, the responsibility is ultimitately on you and always always do your own research first

 

[andywg]

While I understand what you're saying, there are some hard and fast rules about fishkeeping, and those are the things I expect an employee to know.

#You have to cycle a tank - whether you do it fishless or fish-in, it still needs to be done. "Leave it to stand for a week and then it'll be fine for fish" is categorically wrong, there's no interpretation there.
#Tap water needs to be dechlorinated before it goes in your tank

That sort of thing.

Bignose has already pointed out how the above is not always right so I shall not go over it again other than to mention that even those rules you consider hard and fast are not universal. And you misquote what many lfs say which is leave it a week and then get a small number of fish and gradually increase stocking over time. Does a lack of knowledge of the name make them ignorant of the method? No; to misquote Shakespeare: "A rose by any other name...".

Also, knowing your stock is paramount - in whatever sector of retail you work in. Saying "I don't know anything about these, we've only had them in two weeks" is pretty unforgiveable when it's your job to look after them.

But their job is to sell them, not look after them long term. I bet if you went to a car dealership and suggested you were impressed with how a Mitsubishi lancer handled around the second half of the Nürburgring and wanted to know how the latest Aston Martin would compare you would get the answer of "I don't really know".

Sales people are sales people. Their number one responsibility is to sell you things.

Dry stock, too - not knowing what someone's talking about when they ask for a kH test kit is bad.

Why? There is a whole way of keeping fish that doesn't address KH. Indeed, I only ever tested KH when I had a reef tank; never for FW.

To adapt my earlier comment: Tropical Fish Forums represents a minority of fish keepers in the real world. Listen to what almost any person who works in an lfs says and you will see the vast majority of people just want to buy the fish and get them home. The advice an lfs employee dispenses is aimed at the 90% of people who just want some fish. Given that many members after they have been on here for 6 months or so like to prove how much they have learnt here by belittling or catching out lfs employees, is it any wonder that they don't always give advice which the members of this forum like?

A good employee is the check on a bad customer - You can't blame people for keeping a common plec in a 10g tank when the shop assistant has told them it's a perfect algae eater for them.

And I'm sure none of us would criticise someone for using a Chelsea Tractor for running their kids to school because the Range Rover salesman told them it was perfect for the school run as a self shifter makes London easier to drive in. Likewise none of us would question the research methods of someone who lives in a small 4th floor 1 bed flat and works 14 hours shifts who buys a border collie.

People think nothing of questioning some advice a solicitor might give them despite the years of training and studying yet an lfs employee should be some sort of tome of all knowledge on a hugely diverse hobby.

I would put forwards that some special requirement is placed on lfs staff to cover the fact that almost ever single one of us has made a bad choice on buying fish and can't bear to blame our own previous failure to research and so (unable to admit our mistakes) we must find a scapegoat which is where the average lfs employee comes in. It wasn't us neglecting to research the keeping of fish, it was the fault of the negligent lfs employee for not giving me the information and opinions found on this forum.

 

[Cdarmychi]

sigh lfs bashing again.

im going to start a new thread titled "why are so many people so ignorant" because 9 out of 10 people i deal with on a daily basis dont care, dont listen and just want fish, after dealing with this for a few years im not surprised most lfs workers lose faith.

I could not agree more! The number of times I have to deal with people who just want "that fish" no matter how hard I try to explain it will outgrow / kill everything / die in their tank to the point I have to refuse to sell to them makes me sick.
The number of people who dont care about the welfare of the fish and just want it for the sake of it are mind boggling.
Having said that, I do have a lot of customer who gladly listen to and accept my advice, hell some even thank me for it, so it's not all bad, and does make you feel good inside to hear a customer tell you how happy they are with how their tank is from your advice.
What I can't stress enough is (and I follow this advice myself) not to rely on the LFS. Whilst some are very knowledgable, the responsibility is ultimitately on you and always always do your own research first

My first job was at a petsmart....lets just say if i refused the sale they would go complain to the management, and then I would at risk of losing my job, even if I was right. The best i could do was write on the reciept "NO RETURNS/REFUNDS" and the reason why. The management at most of the big chains will really fire an employee that tries to do the right thing. In fact, thats how I lost that job. The boss didnt like how a 16 year old was telling adults they were wrong.

And a month later when the fish section of the store pretty much went under due to massive nuking of ALL the tanks, customers having fits when they replaced the same fish 6 TIMES and it still died again, I laughed when they asked me back. Just keep in mind that sometimes, the clueless idiot in the store acts stupid cause they cant afford not to.