How Reliable Is Ph Down

[Salam]

My friend just started fishkeeping. She only has a 28l tank, so I told her to get five endlers and leave it at that. I gave her a big chunk of mature media and she was instantly cycled. Now within days her endlers have all died. We never tested ph, I know my tap is 7 and she doesn't live far from me and I didn't have a ph test at home and we thought it would be ok. But she just took a water sample to a LFS after all those deaths and ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 (thanks to my media) but her ph is 8.4! The LFS sold her ph down.

Now, how reliable is it? How can I help her? I am thinking of suggesting bogwood and peatballs, but really she is not going to have an easy fishkeeping journey with such a high ph, is she? It totally limits her basically to African cichlids, but for that she needs a big tank. What can she do and how can I help her?

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I personally would not use a chemical to alter the pH. pH is a pretty sensitive aspect to keeping fish in a tank. In fact, its better to have a stable pH rather than altering it to have the correct one. She may try to alter the pH to a more desirable level prior to putting fish in versus altering the pH with fish in. She can also drip aclimatize fish with is basically a longer way to accliatize her fish. I don't have any links on how to do that but googling drip acclimatization would give your friend a good idea on what to do.

The main reason why I am opposing chemical use is because when I was a new fish keeper, my pH crashed to like 5.5. I used pH up and it spike the pH so quickly that 95% of my fish died from the shock.

 

[fishprotector]

I would go with bogwood and also sand makes my ph lower.

 

[4seasons]

Endlers will do fine in 8.4 PH. My endler/guppy hybrids do just fine in my extremely hard water with a PH of 8.3. Most the time high PH water is very hard and has lots of buffering capacity so you really can't just dump some chemical in there and have any long term lasting drop in PH.

 

[Salam]

DM, we have drip acclimatized them, I was there when they were introduced and I do it for all the fish I get to make sure. Fish are all dead now, so nobody would get a sudden shock. Sorry to hear you lost most your fish due to a ph crash and then a rise again

I would go with bogwood and also sand makes my ph lower.

I suggested bogwood. Didn't think sand changed it?!?

Endlers will do fine in 8.4 PH. My endler/guppy hybrids do just fine in my extremely hard water with a PH of 8.3. Most the time high PH water is very hard and has lots of buffering capacity so you really can't just dump some chemical in there and have any long term lasting drop in PH.

Well, unfortunately they didn't in that case. I got myself five endlers too and they are thriving in my ph of 7, but they don't seem to have liked that high ph.

Anyway, looks like we found a solution now. We were just talking and her parents live in the same water supply area as mine. Those towns are all just a few minutes apart, but we have different suppliers. She will fill up huge bottles on a weekly basis from them to use for water changes. That should be alright, yes? And then maybe some bogwood to just help it a little?

 

[fishprotector]

Neither did I, but my gravel filled tanks had a ph of 7, which is what come out of my tap. All of my sand filled tanks have been just under 6.5 apart from my large tank which sits at 6 possibly due to all the wood in it.

 

[Salam]

Ok, I'll suggest that then too. Thanks.

 

[fluttermoth]

^^ It's more likely that your gravel is buffering your pH up, rather than the sand lowering it. Even so-called 'inert' gravels often do that.

To the OP; the problem is, is that a high pH is caused by a lot of dissolved minerals in the water. If you use a strong acid (which is what the pH Down will probably be; if you look at the label it might even be sulphuric acid!) it will force the pH to drop, but it won't soften the water. In a very short time, the effect will wear off, and the minerals will push the pH back up to where it was.

As the other posters have already mentioned, keeping Endlers in high pH water shouldn't be a problem anyway (as long as they were acclimatised well); I'd look at some other reason for the losses.

 

[Salam]

To the OP; the problem is, is that a high pH is caused by a lot of dissolved minerals in the water. If you use a strong acid (which is what the pH Down will probably be; if you look at the label it might even be sulphuric acid!) it will force the pH to drop, but it won't soften the water. In a very short time, the effect will wear off, and the minerals will push the pH back up to where it was.

That was my worry with it when I heard that the LFS sold it to her. Hence I was wondering if more natural things could be added instead.

As the other posters have already mentioned, keeping Endlers in high pH water shouldn't be a problem anyway (as long as they were acclimatised well); I'd look at some other reason for the losses.

The thing is - they were acclimatized via drip method. I got a batch myself same day, same time and mine are thriving, but my ph is 7. Ammonia and Nitrite are 0, so I can't see any other reason bar the ph.

Is the idea of using water from her mum's who lives in my water supply area a good one? Just want to make sure she will be ok by doing this.

 

[Tolak]

Hardness works to stabilize pH. If the shop sold a pH adjusting product without checking hardness I'd find another shop. Endlers should be fine with a higher pH & hardness, I'd bet it's down to the acclimation.

 

[minnnt]

My Unipac Limpopo sand holds my ph at 7.6 no matter what is in the tank. Wood, peat, alder cones, catappa leaves etc. all make no difference what so ever.

 

[Salam]

So what can she do? They were acclimatized.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

How long did your friend acclimatize them? Sometimes with a drastic change in water parameters. I've acclimatized fish for upwards of 3-4 hours (did that with my GBRs) as my pH is significantly higher than that of the LFS. I'm still inclined to agree with Tolak that its down to acclimatization. Most fish (discus being one of the exceptions) can thrive with water parameters that may not be considered "ideal" my tap water has a pH of 9. With the addition of nitrates in my tank, it balances out at about 8.2. My SA cichlids breed with a pH that is ideal for Mbuna.

 

[Salam]

It was about 45-60 minutes. Not enough? The shop was bought in the same town, so should have similar ph.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

It was about 45-60 minutes. Not enough? The shop was bought in the same town, so should have similar ph.

Next time she buys fish, have her test the LFS water. That fact that your did fine and hers did not leans towards its being an acclimation problem. I am willing to bet that the LFS params were closer to your tank than hers.