How Much Is That Fishey In The Window?

[live_the_wild]

There are many pet store chains out there (PetsMart, Petco) that not only cater to mammals, reptiles, and aves but to our dorsal finned friends.

And then there are our specialized fish shops that pride themselves in their fish. I mean, I know of a fish store by me that has employees that are working towards bachelors and master degrees in marine biology.

So what do you think? Should any serious aquarist shop only at these specialized fish stores or should pet stores be able to compete?

How can pet stores better prepare themselves, and educate their customers on how to properly take care of the fish they are buying?

Some of my suggestions include:

1) Knowledge requirements for staff (depending on department).
2) Experince in aquarium keeping for staff (maybe 2 years or more).
3) Monthly (or weekly) audits or expections of their tanks and facilites from government. (this can go for all of the animals in the store)
4) I think pet stores should have big "How to Cycle Your Tank" posters and diagrams in their fish departments that introduce the nitrogen cycle to their customers and explain to them how to go about cycling your tank.
5) More detailed information about the fish they are selling (They can have big laminated cards that give all of the background information on the fish they sell including habitat, behaivor, ADULT size, diet, temperment, special requirements, just to name a few.)

Well, that is my 2 cents lol. Just thought i'd throw some ideas out there. I really hate to see fish (or any animal for that manner) get sold just because the proprietor wants to make a sale.

If you have any comments or ideas, feel free to comment!

Best regards,

live_the_wild

 

[Mikaila31]

I usually only go to those specialized fish shops, usually driving by 6 or more chain stores. I just don't think it is possible for a chain store to compete. I mean the stores I go to often have importers permits and 8,000+ gallons of tanks.

I don't really feel like it is the stores responsibility to teach you anything, I mean it is wonderful if they do. Usually the specialized stores are much better at this. I feel that any responsible owner should be doing their own research on their pets before they get them.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

4) I think pet stores should have big "How to Cycle Your Tank" posters and diagrams in their fish departments that introduce the nitrogen cycle to their customers and explain to them how to go about cycling your tank.

not only that, pet stores should sell mature media and mature filters. i never understood why they dont do that.

 

[schooly20]

Personally I think bringing in the government would have a bad effect.
I do believe that stores should test competence upon hiring, or even before confirming the hire. In a specialty shop like most of our lfs are the employees should know their stuff. I understand that no one will ever know everything and so I always ask that employees are not head strong and rather make up a false answer than ask someone else in the store.

I recently left my part time job at my local fish store, and I prided myself on my ability to help people with the questions they brought me, and the fact that if I didn't the answer I knew my manager would know and I would make sure to ask them before giving our customer the wrong information. I stopped in last week and was talking to the guy they hired to replace me, and to give him a quick test of knowledge I asked him if he could grab me a female German blue ram... he told me that it was impossible to ever tell the difference, that males and females look exactly the same. When I asked, "are you sure," he said well... actually I think the males tend to be slightly bigger and they're color would be much much more vibrant then the females, that the females almost had no color. I just said really? no one can tell the difference, response, nope no one in this store could. I knew for a fact everyone else working that day could have picked a female out in a heart beat.

The reason this really saddened me was that when I was hired into that place, I was asked to take a test, and because I was going to work in freshwater, I was expected to know the most about that, then I was tested on salt water, and then there was farther testing on other animals we carried, I was still expected to know the basics for all of them but I had to score the highest on freshwater. I know its a subject that is talked about a lot but quality of employees can really make or break the local fish stores.

How ever the stores want to go about it, whether its weekly internal audits, testing for employees, or large posters and displays with lots of information, what ever the stores do the most important thing is to be communicating the correct information. Along with establishing a trusting relationship with the customers showing them that you know what you're talking about and that if they do ask a question that you are unsure of the answer you will not tell him a lie but you will do the work to find out the right answer for them. I think some times employees forget that being part of a fish store does not mean your only job is to sell fish but its helping better the hobby with well informed people.

 

[plecoperson]

I expect to be able to walk into my local fish shop and at least see a label on the tank telling me what a fish is... even if it has no other info, I need to be able to go away and find out about it before buying it and for that I need to know what it is. Lots of information on the tank is great but doesnt happen at any of the shops near me. Only one has labels on most tanks (oddballs arent labelled for the most part) but no info - but plenty of staff around who seemd to know their stuff. I only just found this shop and I quite like it, although it is in a garden centre. lots of healthy fish.

One LFS I went into to ask about a lovely catfish they had - the store manager told me it was a pim pictus but having looking it up, quite clearly it's not so I am still in the dark as to what the fish was -obviously, the shop is going to have problems selling it to most customers who actually care what they are putting in their tank. Give the guy his dues, he gave me some accurate info on pictus, but couldnt really tell me anything about the fish I was asking about. He first tried to tell me it was a bristlenose and I had to tell him it wasnt a BN.. or any other type of plec Ive ever seen.

anyway, trained staff - when I worked at a pet shop 5 years ago, the basic requirement was a very brief outline on cycling your tank, and then how to bag a fish, and basic stocking ideas - no betta with gourami, no cichlids with guppies etc. anything more in depth like sexing livebearers, had to find out myself.

 

[Bignose]

2) Experince in aquarium keeping for staff (maybe 2 years or more).

This one is absolutely nuts -- the basics that need to be known can be known in 20 mins. Good help is already hard to find, if you limit your help to people who only have 2+ years of aquarium keeping, then chances are you'll find almost no one to work. And then there won't be fish stores at all.

 

[Bignose]

3) Monthly (or weekly) audits or expections of their tanks and facilites from government. (this can go for all of the animals in the store)

Sure, this idea seems good. But how are you going to pay for such audits? I think that most people already feel like the cost of aquarium fish is too high; to pay for a program like this would require some sort of fish tax -- an additional 10 or 20% price raise to pay for. A lot of us, especially members of this forum who have the requisite knowledge, would probably resent having to subsidize this sort of thing for others who are too lazy or don't care to only buy from retailers that take good care. In short, I think that capitalism can take care of this on their own -- vote with your dollar and only purchase a places that are up to your personal standards.

The above actually applies to your point 1, 4, and 5 as well. If you want these things from stores, then buy from stores that make them available, and vote with your dollar. The simple fact is that the vast majority of their customers don't want or don't care about these things, so they aren't paid for. Adding these things cost money, which will drive us the price of the livestock.

 

[FWFishLover]

2) Experince in aquarium keeping for staff (maybe 2 years or more).

This one is absolutely nuts -- the basics that need to be known can be known in 20 mins. Good help is already hard to find, if you limit your help to people who only have 2+ years of aquarium keeping, then chances are you'll find almost no one to work. And then there won't be fish stores at all.

i think a test on keeping makes more sense rather than experience
IMO as long as you know your stuff there is no difference in how long you have kept/breeded

 

[kevin82]

we can talk about this subject forever. People must remember that most staff in chain stores are part time staff on minimum wages who are usually only there as a wage.

I'm going to mention Pets at home but with good reason. If I ask a member of staff about dog worming, should I also assume they are dog owners. Or even ask about them about breeding rabbits. In most cases they are there to sell you the stuff that you know you want and not what they tell you that you need.

I am a strong believer that it is our responsibility to research things before committing. would you spent £800 on a pedigree puppy before researching one?

Fish keeping sometimes falls short and people can be guilty of saying "it's only a few quid, just get it". This is where the chain store cash in as they are selling the fish that they stock. They dont need to be hugely qualified, they just need to keep the fish alive long enough for people to buy them. They have designer central controlled water systems to control water temp, ph and quality so all the staff have to do is give the tanks a clean once in a while.

Please note: YOU DO GET ENTHUSIASTS WORKING IN CHAIN STORES.

saying only specialist stores are knowledgeable is rubbish. I have two good friends who work at different chain stores. both are part time and both have kept fish for more years than I've been alive (28 years).

 

[hamfist]

Some good points made by everybody. To my mind, so much of it comes down to the individual shop manager, and the culture he/she develops at the store.
With good management, a good culture of quality fishkeeping and advice will develop, hopefully, in most staff members.
What is MOST important, to me, is that staff members are expected not to ***** on stuff they don't know about ( like schooly20's replacement above). If I was a manager, and I found out about this, I would be livid ! All lies will eventually get found out, and the image of the store will suffer.

Excellent thread BTW live_the_wild !

 

[Ben M]

So what do you think? Should any serious aquarist shop only at these specialized fish stores or should pet stores be able to compete?

hi, i would buy from any shop that sells fish. i don't think it matters if they are a specialist fish store or a pet store/garden centre, as i don't really go to the fish shop for advice, (that's what this forums for), i go to buy some fish. i always thoroughly research a fish before i buy it, and make sure that i can look after it properly. i make sure that i buy fish from a tank that has no disease, and i've never had any problems. also, many of the specialist stores are over priced. last week, i bought some C. trilineatus for £4.99 each from a garden centre, where as i could have payed the same for fish half the size in my local MH, not to mention the amount of petrol needed to get me there.

cheers

 

[chesterscot]

@ pest controll
where do you want people to find out about fish if they do not have access to the internet/forums then as librarys only have limited books often out of date regarding filters and bacteria
scot

 

[Ben M]

hi, i meant for me personally i'm not bothered if they know anything. i don't think that all fish shops will ever give good advice, we've just got to accept that they aren't paid a great deal, so a lot won't be bothered. for someone who doesn't have access to internet forums, then it would be best for them to go to a specialist shop to ask for advise, even if they don't buy anything. but you can't really guarantee that they all know what they're on about, even in a specialist store.

cheers

 

[kevin82]

@ pest controll
where do you want people to find out about fish if they do not have access to the internet/forums then as librarys only have limited books often out of date regarding filters and bacteria
scot

I go back to the dog example, would you expect them to know everything about dog worming or would you ask people who have dogs.

Same goes for fish, the best info is from peope who keep fish, not just the internet. also please remember that people sucessfully kept all kind of fish for many many many years, before equipment got so advanced so even out of date books offer some useful information. and I'm guessing no-one can argue that they dont know anyone who keeps fish.

 

[GAB99]

ooo nice topic

i aggree with pest control, im there for the fish because ive already have done the research and ive got my own database and follow the rules on purchasing fish. i just feel sorry for the poor shmucks that dont bother researching and would rather ask the employee who may or may not know his/her stuff.

i myself am considering whether to research into opening a lfs later in life, but even before i have done research i know im not gonna give anybody bs and give them honest info on the fish,and of course hire competent employees that know their stuff,not just by if they keep fish or not, thats a bonus.

and i also think that kevin is spot on that a good resource on keeping fish is to ask someone who keeps fish, obviously excluding the betta in a bowl and goldfish in a bowl owners, i myself get asked tons of questions by friends on a weekly basis about fish keeping.

i think the reason why so many fish are in poor conditions is because people dont treat them like other animals, and dont do any research,if you were gonna get a snake, youd research, same goes for bunny, chicken, duck, turtle, parrot, or spider, but with fish... it doesnt seem to connect, and this is what chain stores for the most part prey on.