How Many Fish

We've had many long discussions on TFF where many of us have pretty much agreed to call this animal the "loose guideline" (*not* the one inch rule) because there are so many extra things to think about with it.. its weird, its just not a rule and yet for a beginner to ignore or not take the overall issue seriously is a bad problem in the making.

In my opinion, based on old experience and also a lot of cases that come by here month after month, its extremely important from the beginners standpoint to try and have a good first year within the tropical fish hobby and thus to get the feel of what its really like when it goes well. Eventually, most hobbyists will experience the feel of overstocking and other types of stocking problems, but when a beginner experiences this badly in the first year, it often turns them off to the hobby forever.

Overstocking has a "thrill" to it that seems very enticing to the beginner. After all, many of us have seen vast numbers of fish when snorkling or beautiful crowded arrays of fish in public aquaria or exciting shoals packing an experienced aquarists big show tank. Its very difficult for a beginner to have the background info to understand that mother natures environments are entirely different, the public aquaria have spent vastly greater amounts of money on their environments and finally that the very experienced aquarist who is overstocking may have truly built up a lot more "experience" for how to go about it successfully.

Overstocking however, especially for the beginner, is not really all that its cracked up to be. There's often a need for quite large and more expensive filtration equipment that the beginner has not learned about yet. There's the very real risk that comes from losing electrical power. An overstocked tank is much, much more difficult to deal with in these situations, by the way. Finally, the "look" of the overstocked tank is *only one* of the many interesting types of looks that can give great pleasure in an aquarium and sometimes it can really look rather crowded and unnatural compared to a correctly or understocked tank.

As a practical matter, the very loose/rough guideline of one inch of fully mature adult fish body (fins/tails don't count) per US gallon is actually a very cheap, very simple, very quickly understood and used guideline in my opinion. Its only ever been meant as a rough mental starting point in the long journey to a final stocking list. The beginner needs to fully understand that its got to be the maximum size a fish can get to and not its young size when seen or bought in the LFS. One must take the time to visit some sources of good fish adult size info and take notes for each fish. Ideally one then also must consider whether the fish are smaller or larger than average and use that to slightly exaggerate the final estimated contribution up or down and even more ideally one would take into account the special instances that people know about such as that certain large suckerfish will put out way more waste than even their large size would lead one to expect! There are a few good special considerations like that but otherwise there are diminishing returns to laboring over it too long.

Of course, the beginner also needs to be aware that this thing we call "how many fish can I put in" is only one phase or topic among several important ones on the path to a final stocking list. The other major phases are figuring out the minimum shoaling sizes of many of the fish types and then matching what size shoals you might attempt against the other fish and shoals you hope to have. And another phase of going through each species against every other species in the tank and figuring out if they can live together or what type of behaviour to expect if you attempt to have them together in whatever numbers you are homing in on. Dragging all this sort of info and advice out of even the very nice members who post here on TFF can be a difficult and time-consuming thing and to do it well requires that the beginner do plenty of homework to help things along. No beginner is going to get it all right but you have to start somewhere and just plan to get better on each successive tank you plan and set up.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Hi waterdrop,

I see that you have made quite a few posts on this forum and that you have a great deal of experience. Would you (or anyone that wants to) mind going to the "science" section and checking out my thread there. I really do want to make this thing better and people with as much experience as you and rabbut are perfect for this endeavor.

Please Give It A Chance,
MOA
 
Hi waterdrop,

I see that you have made quite a few posts on this forum and that you have a great deal of experience. Would you (or anyone that wants to) mind going to the "science" section and checking out my thread there. I really do want to make this thing better and people with as much experience as you and rabbut are perfect for this endeavor.

Please Give It A Chance,
MOA
Yeah I'll take a look. I tend to be busy and selfish and I'm not very good with actual stocking advice myself, so don't take it personally if I don't make it around to commenting in a timely manner, lol. :lol:

~~waterdrop~~
 
OK, I just used the calculator to place a dozen pygmy cories, a half dozen black mollies and 8 harlequin rasboras into a 55 gallon with an XP2 Rena filter and it told me I didn't have enough filtration to do it. On the other hand, I have about 40 juvenile mollies 2 inches long, a few other small fish and 3 juvenile BNPs in a real world tank with that filter on it and consider it fully stocked. The calculator seems to be heavily biased to overfiltering and understocking. That makes it fairly safe for a newbie to use but is not a very realistic way to estimate what can and cannot go into a tank. By most people's way of looking at things, my stockings are fairly light but much heavier than what causes a warning on that file. Actually it was warning me about inadequate filtration before I even entered the mollies. It thought the harleys and cories was too much for a filter rated for well over 55 gallons. I think I will stick with the inch per gallon and recognize that my stocking is a bit heavier than that would call for.
 
First impressions is that it takes one heck of a long time to load, but hey, you say it does a lot :lol: OK, lets try this out and see what it's made of. *goes to enter own stocking for the Discus tank*

Some interesting results for my stocking...

I have the equivalent load in my tank to 500 well fed once daily Neons, it's (according to your spread-sheet) 108.7g, so on paper, massively overstocked... Yet, 57% of my filtration is un-used, I'm water-changing too much and I've 244 waste units spare :shrug: :unsure: Yet, something that fits, is computer says I'm 356 gallons worth of fish over-stocked. OK, one filter of the two copes fine alone biologically, so I'll agree that the filtration calculation is OK, the Nitrate levels run away if I cut back on water changes, so that may want attention, I'm not sure what a unit of waste equates to, I imagine it is something like Bio-load? Anyhow, I'll ignore that until you explain, and the "overstocked" reading is probably right. I was expecting to be told that Angels and Discus aren't recommended, but I can't see where it recommends not putting stuff together :unsure:

The top read out in the key area for mine is;

Percentage: User may be removing too much water relative to cleaning frequency.
Space: There might not be enough space relative to the number of fish kept.
Filter: The filter may not process the wastes adequately.
Waste Level: The amount of wastes that remain in the water is too high.
Size Ratio: The largest fish could eat or harm the smallest fish.
Temp.: The aquarium temperature is too high or low for one or more fish.
Number: User may have too many or too few of a species.
Dimension: The size of the tank in one or more areas might be insufficient.

Percentage, I don't agree with if it's refering to water changes. Space, meh, maybe correct I guess, it is a heavy stocking. Filter seems to be keeping up fine, even when one went down a few months ago when I watered a plug socket that apparently wasn't water-proof. Waste level doesn't make much sense when it says I'm water changing too much as it is, Size Ratio you can make an argument for, but it's rare for angels or Discus to go after tetras when they've grown on with them IME. I guess, add adult Discus/Angels then the tetras and your gonna get issues there, so I'll give it that. Temperature errors will be from the corries no doubt (tanks on 30c for the Discus) but it's done them no harm. Would help if I understood where and how it highlights the offending species. Yup, probably have too many fish. How is a 4ft long, 20" wide and 26" tall tank too small in any way too small for my largest fish, i.e the Angels and Discus though? Something the size of a 55g tall is what is usually considered minimum, but mine dwarfs that size tank :unsure:

On the whole, good system with close enough results and warnings. A few I disagree with, but that may be down to me not being able to work out what it's raising errors with and why...

Credit to you though, there been a lot of effort gone into that :nod: Might be worth adding explanations for things like your waste units e.t.c to make it more clear to a new comer. If it confuses someone like me that's been playing with fish for 14 years, I imagine it will petrify a new comer... Pointing out where it shows errors could make the errors being thrown easier to understand and correct also :nod:

All the best
Rabbut
 
MOA, there is no excuse for saying that an appropriately filtered 55 can't hold 8 rasboras and a dozen pygmy cories. A maximum size for a harlequin rasbora is less than 2 inches SL and the cories max out at 1.4 inches each. A dozen of them adds to only about 20 inches using the inches guidance and the rasboras come to somewhere between 12 and 16 inches. The size issue that throws off the inch per gallon grossly overestimates bioload for a small fish so these fish should be easily stocked at 1.5 inches per gallon not overstocked at less than 1 inch per gallon. Sorry but wrong is still wrong. The calculator might have been sort of close for a reef tank but not for a freshwater.
 
I think it's more the length instructions TBH... I skim read them and improvised from there, going back to the instructions if something didn't look right. ;)

The 500 Neons was my paper calculation on the equivalent bio-load on the tank, assuming one normal feed a day, for my stocking of 1.5" per gallon, with fish getting 4 heavy feeds a day, half meaty, quarter dry pellets and quarter veg :nod: The filtration is two Tetratec EX1200 externals. Water changes are 50% twice a week.

All the best
Rabbut
 

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