Hi Leecra,
Sorry to jump in when Underwurlde has been helping you along this far
From your posts I'd agree with him that your tank is still in the process of cycling. As you have discovered, leaving a tank sitting for a couple of weeks is not cycling and really makes no difference.
As for the advice of fish shops, you live and learn. Hopefully in future you'll be able to tell *them* where they are messing up!
Your current stock level looks about right for that size of tank. I certainly woudln't add any more fish. Adding the plant is entirely up to you, I think Underwurlde was trying to warn you of the perils of snails
If you're going to add the plant make sure you check it for any signs of snails or snail eggs first. Plants do use nitrates etc as food, but one plant won't make any significant difference. Consider it as decor
Assuming you have your own test kit, you should probably be testing for ammonia and nitrIte daily until you see your ammonia staying at 0 and your nitrIte start to rise. If your ammonia or nitrite readings get too high then do a water change to bring the levels back down for the benefit of your fish (20% or there abouts, daily if necessary).
Make sure any water you add to the tank has been dechlorinated beforehand so you don't kill the bacteria in your filter and setback your cycle even more. Don't change too much at a time since you need to make sure there is still some ammonia/nitrIte to feed the developing bacteria.
Is your filter a "Fluval 2 Plus" ? If so then your filtration is fine for the size of your tank. Even if it's not a plus model it should still be fine. I wouldn't worry about extra filters for the tank. As a last note, if/when you decide to rinse out the sponge in the filter be sure you do so in aquarium water, not tap water. The easiest way is to use the water you take out of the tank in a water change. You shouldn't need to do that until the tank has completed its cycle tho.
Sorry for rambling, good luck with your tank !
Glod.
P.s.
to TFF
Wise words Glod, nicely put.
Andy, good detailed answers but very complex for a beginer to take in, all she wants to do is sort her tank out.
A U/G filter would solve the problem with a powerhead (powerheads are mainly for marine keepers
What???) Every single piece of gravel covered in bacteria (even better if using aqua grit cos its porous) compared the 3 tiny sponges in a fluval 2 there is no comparison as to which will filter the tank more efficiently?
There are only 7 fish left and I doubt the rams will survive, the newer tank is only 4 days old, so apart from more stress for fish now is the ideal time to strip it down again and start ffrom scratch. I agree my recommendations are no means ideal but it will mean a clean slate with a basic plan to succeeding without the disasterous results of her first attempt.
On my own 90g tank I run an Eheim 2217 and 2226 both running as biological filters (I.e glorified UG) I Ephimech and EphiSubstrat Pro and graded sponges. Both are porous media allowing maximum surface area for the bacteria to colonise.
This is advice the LFS should have offered you in the place:
2-3 das after you have set the tank come back and get your few fish. You should get no more than 6 fish to begin with, unfortunately these are going be used as guinea pigs to begin (you should expect to lose at least one of them). Once you add the fiish start to use the suplimanted bacteria. The tank will start to mature once fish start to produce organic waste. After a couple of the days the Nitirite is going to begin to surge, it will be very toxic to the fish when it peaks, once it has peaked it will start to drop just as the Amonnia starts to rise this too will be very toxic when it peaks (and very uncomfortable for any fish living in it) by the end of week 4 the Amonnia will have reduced to zero but the Nitrate will have started to rise sharpley this is unavoidable but the begining of the final phase of the maturation prpcess. Nitrate is the least harmful of the 3 and is a by product of the previous 2. After week 1 you need to get into into the habit of doing a weekly water change between 25-30% once a week (this is the most important part of keeping a succesful tank) also during the first 6 weeks keep the feeding down to a minimum (once evry other day) it is better to under feed than to over feed. After weeks 2/4/6 bring a water sample for me to test so I can explain using the results what is happening in your aquarium and make a recomendation as to wether you should add more fish or not. I know it sounds difficult but it really isn't as long as you stick with the 3 golden rules:
1. Weekly water changes
2. Don't over feed
3. Don't over stock
If you stick to this you won't have any problems. If you do get a problem, give us a call.
See if you can spot the person that has been selling fish tanks for to long, I must have preached that to at least 3 people yesterday. My Dad, my brother and anyone that works for us all sing off the same song sheet. It is very well tried and tested formula.
And incidentally we have over 150 dsiplay aquariums each running on Under Gravel filters they are very heavily stocked and run perfectly!
Andy I notice you are in Hampshire as is Nicole I think can you recommend a good LFS for her to use?
Hi Leecra,
Sorry to jump in when Underwurlde has been helping you along this far
From your posts I'd agree with him that your tank is still in the process of cycling. As you have discovered, leaving a tank sitting for a couple of weeks is not cycling and really makes no difference.
As for the advice of fish shops, you live and learn. Hopefully in future you'll be able to tell *them* where they are messing up!
Your current stock level looks about right for that size of tank. I certainly woudln't add any more fish. Adding the plant is entirely up to you, I think Underwurlde was trying to warn you of the perils of snails
If you're going to add the plant make sure you check it for any signs of snails or snail eggs first. Plants do use nitrates etc as food, but one plant won't make any significant difference. Consider it as decor
Assuming you have your own test kit, you should probably be testing for ammonia and nitrIte daily until you see your ammonia staying at 0 and your nitrIte start to rise. If your ammonia or nitrite readings get too high then do a water change to bring the levels back down for the benefit of your fish (20% or there abouts, daily if necessary).
Make sure any water you add to the tank has been dechlorinated beforehand so you don't kill the bacteria in your filter and setback your cycle even more. Don't change too much at a time since you need to make sure there is still some ammonia/nitrIte to feed the developing bacteria.
Is your filter a "Fluval 2 Plus" ? If so then your filtration is fine for the size of your tank. Even if it's not a plus model it should still be fine. I wouldn't worry about extra filters for the tank. As a last note, if/when you decide to rinse out the sponge in the filter be sure you do so in aquarium water, not tap water. The easiest way is to use the water you take out of the tank in a water change. You shouldn't need to do that until the tank has completed its cycle tho.
Sorry for rambling, good luck with your tank !
Glod.
P.s.
to TFF
Wise words Glod, nicely put.
Andy, good detailed answers but very complex for a beginer to take in, all she wants to do is sort her tank out.
A U/G filter would solve the problem with a powerhead (powerheads are mainly for marine keepers
What???) Every single piece of gravel covered in bacteria (even better if using aqua grit cos its porous) compared the 3 tiny sponges in a fluval 2 there is no comparison as to which will filter the tank more efficiently?
There are only 7 fish left and I doubt the rams will survive, the newer tank is only 4 days old, so apart from more stress for fish now is the ideal time to strip it down again and start ffrom scratch. I agree my recommendations are no means ideal but it will mean a clean slate with a basic plan to succeeding without the disasterous results of her first attempt.
On my own 90g tank I run an Eheim 2217 and 2226 both running as biological filters (I.e glorified UG) I Ephimech and EphiSubstrat Pro and graded sponges. Both are porous media allowing maximum surface area for the bacteria to colonise.
This is advice the LFS should have offered you in the place:
2-3 das after you have set the tank come back and get your few fish. You should get no more than 6 fish to begin with, unfortunately these are going be used as guinea pigs to begin (you should expect to lose at least one of them). Once you add the fiish start to use the suplimanted bacteria. The tank will start to mature once fish start to produce organic waste. After a couple of the days the Nitirite is going to begin to surge, it will be very toxic to the fish when it peaks, once it has peaked it will start to drop just as the Amonnia starts to rise this too will be very toxic when it peaks (and very uncomfortable for any fish living in it) by the end of week 4 the Amonnia will have reduced to zero but the Nitrate will have started to rise sharpley this is unavoidable but the begining of the final phase of the maturation prpcess. Nitrate is the least harmful of the 3 and is a by product of the previous 2. After week 1 you need to get into into the habit of doing a weekly water change between 25-30% once a week (this is the most important part of keeping a succesful tank) also during the first 6 weeks keep the feeding down to a minimum (once evry other day) it is better to under feed than to over feed. After weeks 2/4/6 bring a water sample for me to test so I can explain using the results what is happening in your aquarium and make a recomendation as to wether you should add more fish or not. I know it sounds difficult but it really isn't as long as you stick with the 3 golden rules:
1. Weekly water changes
2. Don't over feed
3. Don't over stock
If you stick to this you won't have any problems. If you do get a problem, give us a call.
See if you can spot the person that has been selling fish tanks for to long, I must have preached that to at least 3 people yesterday. My Dad, my brother and anyone that works for us all sing off the same song sheet. It is very well tried and tested formula.
And incidentally we have over 150 dsiplay aquariums each running on Under Gravel filters they are very heavily stocked and run perfectly!
Andy I notice you are in Hampshire as is Nicole I think can you recommend a good LFS for her to use?
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=73365
to there new customers its a joke, and a shame that so many get put off the hobby because of the incompentance of the few lfs or is it.
