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HELP!!!!

I read through all of that, but it just doesn't seem to fit my case. Of course nothing I've read hasx fit my problem. The description of dropsey seems to fit most, but I could be wrong. Whatever it was affected my fish in completely different ways, although if the spot appeared nearly a month ago, maybe he has had it for a while just hasn't shown symptoms up until the end. Thanks to everyone who tried to help.
I am now soaking the two tanks in very hot water, and am scrubbing everything. I don't have access to boiling water here at school, so do you think this will be ok. The water is so hot I can't even touch it?
 
The patch I described earlier now is like eating away at him

You description of what happened to kip sounds exactly like comulnaris; the white growths leading to ulcertations; this is they key mark of the disease in bettas. It is VERY contageous, so you need to use more than boling water, or you have a very high risk of spreading it to your other fish. In fact, if you have handled your other fish's water, or used the same nets/cups/siphons for your other fish, there is a chance it was spread due to its immense virulence.
I would very strongly suggest that in addition to the boiling water, you use either salt or bleach. Columnaris hates salt, and while bleach is effective with everything, many more serious bacteria are not effected by bleach even at full concentration for up to 20 min. So soak it for a good long while. One thing I've been doing with the gear from my columnaris boy, which seems to be working, is using alternating boiling salt water, then icey cold water. I think the combo of salt and rapid temp. fluctuations are damaging to the bacteria, since most aquatic bacteria can only handle about the same conditions as thier host.
I am VERY sorry to hear of your losses :byebye: ; what a rough week! I hope that you remaining fish live long, happy, healthy lives
 
Wow! I don't know what I am gonna do. Maybe get some bleach and clean every supply I have. I have cups for each boy so maybe I can write their name on it, and only use it for them during water changes........ What about the net. I obviously cannot go buy 21 nets, how do I clean it between transfers?
It is tank cleaning day, so I am at a loss as to what to do, to get everything sorted in like a matter of hours. Everyone else seems to be doing great. No marks, acting happy......
I do have salt? What do I need to do with that to clean everything? Ok would this work.......
Clean out Kip and Pedros tank, clean net, and cups used for holding during water changes. Once those are cleaned I should be in the clear as far as spreading it to anyone else right? Then can go about doing regular water changes as long as noone else shows any signs of anything.
 
Random, post me the info on bleach, ok? Medics use hydogen peroxide for dis infecting. I'm wondering what can resist oxidation?

I am interested as you know. :)
 
Hydrogen peroxide? REALLY. We just learned in our class about aeseptic technique that hydrogen peroxide only makes bacteria "static", and doesn't do jack-all for viruses, spores, and strong, resistant bacteria. There are other peroxides, like chlorhexadine, that are indeed extremely effective in destroying pretty much anything, and have a "residual effect" which means it keeps working even if it is whiped away. They do this by altering the cell wall permeability of microbes, which allows them to be more easily destroyed (hence the use of betadine on the surgical site before making the incision). However, you should not use them with alchohol (common practice) as it weakens the chlorhexadine's ability to bind to the tissue for the residual effect.

In terms of strength, cleansers are as such, with the ones near the top being almost 100% effective, and the ones near the bottom being not-so-hot.
1. Ethylene Oxide - denatures the microbe, but is not often used since it is so flammable.
2. Aldehydes - require a 12 hour contact time, but will kill EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, also carcinogenic and highly toxic.
3. (some) Peroxides - eso, chlorhexadine; you read why above.
4. Hallogens - Very effective, but poor residual effect. Damages cell wall.
5. Phenols - bacteriacidal, but can't be used on fish as they are toxic to most animals in general.
6. Alcohol - very effective in lysing sell walls of almost anything, but needs a min 20 min contact time. Bleach could probably be placed in a similar league, as it also needs a very long contact time to be effective. It is not at all effective against spores, and takes 20 min at full concentration to completely whipe out anything strong. Hydrogen peroxide fits down here as well, as it does not actually kill bacteria. It does, however, have a funny habit of destroying white blood cells, which is why we never use it on wounds; we need those suckers there to kill the infection. It used to be considered useful for at least helping "bubble" debris out, but since you can flush with saline without killing white cells, it is being used less and less frequently.

However, let us remember - we are not working on a surgical patient! When sterilizing a tank, we need to consider the type of bacteria, the conditions it thrives in, the conditions it dislikes, and use that to launch our attack. I believe columnaris is gram -, which makes it stronger; it has a cell membrane, a cell wall, and another cell membrane, where most bacteria have a wall and membrane, or only one of the two. But, it also has some conditions it dislikes. For example, it is known to hate salt, cold temperatures, high aeration, and current. So, when I sterilized my boy's things, I used a TON of salt, both very cold an very hot water, and when treating, had constant aeration, plenty of aquarium salt, and the filter running. It is 5 days later and he is recovered, but I've heard to always do 10 days antibiotics with columnaris to kill residual bacteria in the tank. So, I'm doing a water chance and full tank sterilization tonight, then repeating treatment.

Anyways, on to Riogal's questions regarding her equip:

Does each betta have its own cup for water changes (I think you said so, but I didn't know if ALL of them did)? If not, as I mentioned to Jollysue on a very cool PM convo, I suggest getting some small tupperware containers, poking little holes in the lids, writing your fishies names or tank #s on them, and using a cup for each. This prevents the risk of cross contamination during changes, as most people probably do not boil and bleach/salt thier cups between fish. As for the net, why use one? Not only do they spread disease from fish to fish like crazy, they have a tendancy to hurt betta fins and rub off slime coat. I have always used the scooping in a cup method. I simply deny the fish their food the day I want to clean. They swim up the second I open the lid, begging for food, and I scoop 'em up, this way they never have to leave the water or come in contact with anything damaging. :thumbs:
 
Very Cool Random. I got a lot of that. I'm inclined at my level to be choosing between wiping the counter down with bleach or antibacterial spray. :p :lol:

You are heads over most of us in your method and will always be most likely. I will start using salt again with bleach also. What I tend to do is boil with salt and soak with 10% bleach.

I am preparing to do some tank rearranging. Unfortunaely it includes some tank dividers. But it is for fish that have not shown any symptoms and came in the same shipment..

The only fish that have really shown symptoms are my diamond head neons--very like cardinals. I think I got a batch of neons that some have NTD which then gave rise to an oportunistic culumnaris. This happened before they got to me at the lfs or the breeder. I think this because the lfs has recieved a 3rd shipment of these fellows and they have each had a bobber in their midst. The whol tank, which they just got also has well developed culumnaris. Frankly I won't be buying any fish from them for awhile.

I will do my best to institute what I can of your information. My biggest concern at the moment is have I got a resistant strain and resistant to what?
 

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