Help with cloud minnows

[Colin_T]

Pictures of the fish so we can check them for disease?

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As @itiwhetu said, White Cloud Mountain Minnows are coldwater fish, they do not need a heater and will survive in water that is 5C up to 30C. However, their preferred range is 10-25C. If they are indoors just leave them without a heater. If they are outdoors, they will be fine as long as you don't get ice on the water.

In warmer water, they age quicker and die sooner. The females are also more included to becoming egg bound if kept in warm water all the time.

The only time I would recommend a heater for these guys is if the water temperature is dropping a lot during the night and going up during the day. Then you could set the heater on 18C just so they have a more stable temperature.

They don't eat as much in cold water so don't need to be fed as often in cold water.

 

[tomdaven]

Pictures of the fish so we can check them for disease?

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As @itiwhetu said, White Cloud Mountain Minnows are coldwater fish, they do not need a heater and will survive in water that is 5C up to 30C. However, their preferred range is 10-25C. If they are indoors just leave them without a heater. If they are outdoors, they will be fine as long as you don't get ice on the water.

In warmer water, they age quicker and die sooner. The females are also more included to becoming egg bound if kept in warm water all the time.

The only time I would recommend a heater for these guys is if the water temperature is dropping a lot during the night and going up during the day. Then you could set the heater on 18C just so they have a more stable temperature.

They don't eat as much in cold water so don't need to be fed as often in cold water.

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately i've lost anothe

r one over night. I've attached two photos. Thanks

 

[itiwhetu]

These guys love plants and need them to make them happy, how many live plants do you have in your tank?

 

[tomdaven]

Two small plants and 1 large driftwood. Roughly a third of the tank is taken up by these three things. Thanks

 

[itiwhetu]

Can you put a photo of the whole tank, please?

 

[tomdaven]

Can you put a photo of the whole tank, please?

I have just removed the second plant as the dead fish was stuck in it. Its about the same size as the one in there. Thanks

 

[Colin_T]

DW is from a pet store, light coloured wood, "not tanned". I put it in boiling water when we got it.
Its currently got a lot of white fluff type material on it, which I believe is ok.

Take the driftwood out and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. See if the fish get better. You can hose the driftwood off when it's out of the tank. If they do improve and no more die, put the wood back in the tank and monitor the fish. if they start dying again, then remove the wood and do water changes every day for a week. Then do not use the wood again because it is poisoning the fish. If it is poisoning the fish, you should be able to return it to the shop for a full refund.

When you remove the driftwood, either add a heap of live plants or turn the light off and just have room light for the fish. They will stress in a bright tank with a white substrate and no plants.

Where are the bubbles from the filter?
Do you have an air pump to run the filter?

 

[tomdaven]

Take the driftwood out and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. See if the fish get better. You can hose the driftwood off when it's out of the tank. If they do improve and no more die, put the wood back in the tank and monitor the fish. if they start dying again, then remove the wood and do water changes every day for a week. Then do not use the wood again because it is poisoning the fish. If it is poisoning the fish, you should be able to return it to the shop for a full refund.

When you remove the driftwood, either add a heap of live plants or turn the light off and just have room light for the fish. They will stress in a bright tank with a white substrate and no plants.

Where are the bubbles from the filter?
Do you have an air pump to run the filter?

Thanks will start this today. Light was only on for the photo, its always off otherwise.

Using this filter
Filter it has a built in air pump.
Photo doesn't show the bubbles, but there's plenty when you take the lid off.

 

[tomdaven]

Thanks will start this today. Light was only on for the photo, its always off otherwise.

Using this filter
Filter it has a built in air pump.
Photo doesn't show the bubbles, but there's plenty when you take the lid off.

I've done water changes each day, kept the tank light off, removed the driftwood and not put it back in.
Now got six fake plants in there and added a black background to hopefully help them settle.

Water tests still show Ammonia and Nitrite as 0, Nitrate at 0 and PH of 7.4 (slight drop).

However i've lost another two Minnows. One today and one two days ago.

I've not seen any of them eat for days now, when i feed them (flake) they go up to it but then don't take it.

Also noticed that they are spending around 95% of there time at the bottom of the tank, from what i've read Minnows are top/middle fish. They are swimming around, but not massively active.

Considering taking the remaining three to a nearby brook (i've seen other very small Minnow like fish there previously) and releasing them and then starting again with a proper fish out cycle.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Colin_T]

Considering taking the remaining three to a nearby brook (i've seen other very small Minnow like fish there previously) and releasing them and then starting again with a proper fish out cycle.

Don't do that. If your fish have a disease and you release them into the wild, there is a good chance the native fishes will catch the disease and die. It's also unlikely there is other white cloud minnows in your local creek, the fish you see are probably Gambusia that will probably attack the white clouds. And bigger native fishes will eat white clouds.

Can you post a video of the fish?

You can try adding salt to the tank. It might not help but it might.
Add 2 heaped tablespoons of rock salt (aquarium salt) for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. Keep salt in the tank for 2 weeks. See how they go.

 

[tomdaven]

Don't do that. If your fish have a disease and you release them into the wild, there is a good chance the native fishes will catch the disease and die. It's also unlikely there is other white cloud minnows in your local creek, the fish you see are probably Gambusia that will probably attack the white clouds. And bigger native fishes will eat white clouds.

Can you post a video of the fish?

You can try adding salt to the tank. It might not help but it might.
Add 2 heaped tablespoons of rock salt (aquarium salt) for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. Keep salt in the tank for 2 weeks. See how they go.

Thanks

Two videos here.

 

[Colin_T]

The videos don't help. The substrate is white and that is contributing to their faded colour, and that is making it harder to tell if there is any physical issues on the outside of the fish.

At this stage just try the salt and see if it helps.

 

[tomdaven]

The videos don't help. The substrate is white and that is contributing to their faded colour, and that is making it harder to tell if there is any physical issues on the outside of the fish.

At this stage just try the salt and see if it helps.

Thanks will try the salt.

 

[tomdaven]

The videos don't help. The substrate is white and that is contributing to their faded colour, and that is making it harder to tell if there is any physical issues on the outside of the fish.

At this stage just try the salt and see if it helps.

Unfortunately i've lost another two over night, just one left now. To be fair i've watched the last one eat yesterday and this morning, he seems ok.
Obviously the tank is not ok to add other fish at this time and i have no way of knowing when it is ready as the water tests are still fine.

I think the best option is to start again with a proper fishless cycle this time.

Should i clean everything in the tank including the filter or are any of them worth keeping for the bacteria?

thanks again

 

[ClownLurch]

I had similar documented on here over a year ago with my WCMMs. All but one fish in a tank of approx 25 died and that was a hybrid Japanese Ricefish-Daisys Ricefish which may have been tougher than the rest who were almost certainly inbred to a degree.
I believe my tanks problems were a perfect storm of a psycho guppy biting other fish and me forgetting to use my “baffle container” when refilling tank via python which meant sand was blasted everywhere creating murky water. I think bacteria from the murky water infected the open wounds of a lot of fish and spread like wildfire through the tank taking over a month to finish them off despite daily huge water changes and salt treatment.
I saw bite marks on corpses and actually pictured him biting a WCMM while trying to photograph a diseased fish to show the pic on here.
I nearly threw the towel in again on fishkeeping and if that one Ricefish hybrid hadn’t survived I may well have.

Best of luck.