Help To Make A Freinds Tank Suitable!?

[fish4freinds]

hi im new and want a bit of help

my best mate wanted to go out and buy a small 2ft tank for her new house and "pop" in some new fish, id started researching a bit as would quite like a tank of my own in the near future and so i stopped her and said they would die as even with my limited knowledge know they need a month (ish) for water to settle in a new tank and to be introduced slowly, she was shocked that there was more to it and said she didnt mind paying more for a good tank etc and will read up on basic fish care but as i know more than her (barely) then prehaps i could help her purchess the right tank and the right fish and set it all up to ensure they have the right start,
ideally she wants a fish like nemo (a clown fish i guess! ) a fish like dory ( im assuming a blue tang) and a black and yellow fish cuz she wants to call it bee?!!!!!! (i guess there are lots of possibilitys) and im not even sure if in a tank these fish can live together?!!! and if they can what size space they need?

so i need your help this is my chance to ensure these fish's welfare and happiness she happy to pay out for a good tank but said she didnt want something huge (i showed her some 5ft ones online which she thought were too big, but as im of the opinion any animal should have the best amount of space possible think she would be more convinced by expert opinions and forum members so

roughly what tank size would she need how many of each fish (so they are happy) and of course what coral and plants do they need in addition, what is the best order to introduce and ensure they are given the best chance of being happy and thriving, she is looking for low maintanence but like many people i guess doesnt want to do the info searching!!!!(sp annoys me but i cant bear to think of fish dying because she hasnt researched!!!) so i really want to find out she says i can set up the tank and sort the fish out and then all she has to do is maintain with feeding and cleaning and it can look good in her new house!!!! i have no issues with setting up for her but i need to be sure im doing it right, she will care for the fish and i know she very much wants them but i think its a case of her being ignorant to the initial start up needs! (ps she has never owned a pet before either)

also in addition what is a good fish for a begginer who has no preferences!!! i would quite like a large tank and some colour in it but other than that something easy to keep for my own tank which i have yet to buy!!!!

 

[cornishlass]

Have you had a look at the marine section of the forum? There is lots of info you could pass on to your friend about Marine set ups, it takes a long time (months) to set up marine and there is a lot of work involved. I believe a dory fish get very large so she would need a huge tank.

I am sure an experienced member will be along to help shortly

 

[ian]

i will move this to the marine section.

 

[seffieuk]

to the forum

A pair of clowns = 20/30 gallon tank, throw in a regal tang (dory!) and the tank needs to be at least 90 + gallons and five feet long

So, huge difference have a good read around the tank journels, they offer a wealth of knowledge

SEffie x

 

[fish4freinds]

thanks everyone!! i see, i think she is wanting a much smaller tank! i will tell her that she either has to go much bigger in her thinking (and planning) or think of a different fish, but if a 20/30 gallon tank would be ok for pair of clowns what other fish could go in with them? i think i can persuade her to get a tank of 3-4ft which i think would be around 60 gallons? (im a bit unsure as it is all a little confusing to a begginer! thanks for your help! now im in the right section i can have a good old read (will prob find my obvious questions answered!!!too) x

 

[HappyGeorge]

I'm afraid this sounds like a project doomed to failure. Basic equipment she needs would be different for a clown fish to a Blue Regal Tang (Dory). Dorys need a 5ft tank, and a clown fish ideally a 150 litres. Budget is going to be at least £400-500.
Will need RO water, as you can't use water from the tap. So either buying a unit to make your own (£150 and some plumbing) or buy it from Fish shop, and remember this will be a weekly chore for a 10% water change. Then you need to mix in salt (25kg = £50) then buy a refractometer to test it (£40). Then you need some Live rock between 10-30kg at about £10 a kilo fish shop prices, then test kits, a powerhead, sand, heater. Then sit and watch an empty tank whilst testing frequently (£40 for test kits) for a while (4-6 weeks as a minimum if the rock is already mature). Then you can do the easy bit and stick a clown fish in it.
As for a tank fit for Dory look at about £2-2500 for that project.
I think you're dead right mate and she hasn't thought this through, well done you for putting her off and doing the research . I suggest telling her it's going to take at least half hour a day and a couple each weekend to keep a marine tank and there are things that live in the rock that might bite her.

 

[woody88]

thanks everyone!! i see, i think she is wanting a much smaller tank! i will tell her that she either has to go much bigger in her thinking (and planning) or think of a different fish, but if a 20/30 gallon tank would be ok for pair of clowns what other fish could go in with them? i think i can persuade her to get a tank of 3-4ft which i think would be around 60 gallons? (im a bit unsure as it is all a little confusing to a begginer! thanks for your help! now im in the right section i can have a good old read (will prob find my obvious questions answered!!!too) x

Hi & welcome!......I'm pretty new to marine myself, and although I have reasonable experience in tropical, Marine setups are an entirely different kettle of......er fish .
I have done nothing but research,research,research since I have had the tank, and it can be very expensive as well as very time consuming [especially when setting up and getting it established] But it is well worth it in the end as they are beautiful when they are setup and running.

My advice is for you to tell your friend to read through the journels in the marine section as they will give both you and your friend a very good idea as to what is involved in setting up and maintaining marine tanks.

Mainly so, so she can decide if fish keeping is what she really wants to get into.

They DO require weekly maintenence IMO [I spend roughly 2-3 hrs a week on my marine tank and to be honest I could do alot more in terms of maintenance each week].

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Don't be afraid to ask questions on here as everyone is extremely helpful and if it was'nt for the likes of Seffie, Donya, Ozzie, Sorgan etc, my tank would have probably crashed by now.

 

[fish4freinds]

thanks everyone!! i see, i think she is wanting a much smaller tank! i will tell her that she either has to go much bigger in her thinking (and planning) or think of a different fish, but if a 20/30 gallon tank would be ok for pair of clowns what other fish could go in with them? i think i can persuade her to get a tank of 3-4ft which i think would be around 60 gallons? (im a bit unsure as it is all a little confusing to a begginer! thanks for your help! now im in the right section i can have a good old read (will prob find my obvious questions answered!!!too) x

Hi & welcome!......I'm pretty new to marine myself, and although I have reasonable experience in tropical, Marine setups are an entirely different kettle of......er fish .
I have done nothing but research,research,research since I have had the tank, and it can be very expensive as well as very time consuming [especially when setting up and getting it established] But it is well worth it in the end as they are beautiful when they are setup and running.

My advice is for you to tell your friend to read through the journels in the marine section as they will give both you and your friend a very good idea as to what is involved in setting up and maintaining marine tanks.

Mainly so, so she can decide if fish keeping is what she really wants to get into.

They DO require weekly maintenence IMO [I spend roughly 2-3 hrs a week on my marine tank and to be honest I could do alot more in terms of maintenance each week].

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Don't be afraid to ask questions on here as everyone is extremely helpful and if it was'nt for the likes of Seffie, Donya, Ozzie, Sorgan etc, my tank would have probably crashed by now.

thankyou to everyone i rang her today she said that she may well join the forum herself!!! and also if not will be buying a few books on marine keeping first for sure! i told her a min of a 5ft tank if she wanted those fish and likely a 6ft one..... there was a sigh then she said that if thats what the fishes need then thats what the fishes shall get! im really pleased im going to be reading up a lot myself as definatly think id like to start my own tank too, im sure that the pair of us will learn a lot from you all! be aware though i will ask lots of questions and i wont be able to offer anyone any advice in return until i have a lot more expierinace!!!!

 

[fish4freinds]

I'm afraid this sounds like a project doomed to failure. Basic equipment she needs would be different for a clown fish to a Blue Regal Tang (Dory). Dorys need a 5ft tank, and a clown fish ideally a 150 litres. Budget is going to be at least £400-500.
Will need RO water, as you can't use water from the tap. So either buying a unit to make your own (£150 and some plumbing) or buy it from Fish shop, and remember this will be a weekly chore for a 10% water change. Then you need to mix in salt (25kg = £50) then buy a refractometer to test it (£40). Then you need some Live rock between 10-30kg at about £10 a kilo fish shop prices, then test kits, a powerhead, sand, heater. Then sit and watch an empty tank whilst testing frequently (£40 for test kits) for a while (4-6 weeks as a minimum if the rock is already mature). Then you can do the easy bit and stick a clown fish in it.
As for a tank fit for Dory look at about £2-2500 for that project.
I think you're dead right mate and she hasn't thought this through, well done you for putting her off and doing the research . I suggest telling her it's going to take at least half hour a day and a couple each weekend to keep a marine tank and there are things that live in the rock that might bite her.

i am going to print this off to show her, she wont be offended and will prefer the honesty but when explainin stuff on phone she still sounds interested and is prepared to pay out the costs involved and get a bigger tank, it will be a learning curve though before purchessing i think! what is RO water? and how large is the unit you buy to make your own? how often would you add salt?

 

[HappyGeorge]

I'm afraid this sounds like a project doomed to failure. Basic equipment she needs would be different for a clown fish to a Blue Regal Tang (Dory). Dorys need a 5ft tank, and a clown fish ideally a 150 litres. Budget is going to be at least £400-500.
Will need RO water, as you can't use water from the tap. So either buying a unit to make your own (£150 and some plumbing) or buy it from Fish shop, and remember this will be a weekly chore for a 10% water change. Then you need to mix in salt (25kg = £50) then buy a refractometer to test it (£40). Then you need some Live rock between 10-30kg at about £10 a kilo fish shop prices, then test kits, a powerhead, sand, heater. Then sit and watch an empty tank whilst testing frequently (£40 for test kits) for a while (4-6 weeks as a minimum if the rock is already mature). Then you can do the easy bit and stick a clown fish in it.
As for a tank fit for Dory look at about £2-2500 for that project.
I think you're dead right mate and she hasn't thought this through, well done you for putting her off and doing the research . I suggest telling her it's going to take at least half hour a day and a couple each weekend to keep a marine tank and there are things that live in the rock that might bite her.

i am going to print this off to show her, she wont be offended and will prefer the honesty but when explainin stuff on phone she still sounds interested and is prepared to pay out the costs involved and get a bigger tank, it will be a learning curve though before purchessing i think! what is RO water? and how large is the unit you buy to make your own? how often would you add salt?

If you're going to put in the research that's great, my post was maybe a little harsh but I would rather put someone off than see beautiful fish distressed. With marines most are wild caught so to my mind killing them off is even more of a travesty. My RO unit was about £100 and will produce enough filtered water to do a tank change on a 100G tank in one evening. In my case I plumbed it in off of the washing machine feed (pictures on my journal click here) if you buy RO Water it's about 10-15 pence a litre, as for salt you need to match the salt levels and temperature of new water to that of your tank before you do a water change. You have many nights of reading, reading and more reading ahead I think but good luck and hopefully you will make a good go of it. Last thing I would say is don't so anything until you're sure, and if you're not sure feel free to ask here, and take advice from any fish shops with a pinch of salt remember they want to sell stuff and there is a vast gulf between the knowledgable, helpful ones and the ignorant, money grabbing ones , I would always double check anything I am told.

 

[fish4freinds]

[/quote]

If you're going to put in the research that's great, my post was maybe a little harsh but I would rather put someone off than see beautiful fish distressed. With marines most are wild caught so to my mind killing them off is even more of a travesty. My RO unit was about £100 and will produce enough filtered water to do a tank change on a 100G tank in one evening. In my case I plumbed it in off of the washing machine feed (pictures on my journal click here) if you buy RO Water it's about 10-15 pence a litre, as for salt you need to match the salt levels and temperature of new water to that of your tank before you do a water change. You have many nights of reading, reading and more reading ahead I think but good luck and hopefully you will make a good go of it. Last thing I would say is don't so anything until you're sure, and if you're not sure feel free to ask here, and take advice from any fish shops with a pinch of salt remember they want to sell stuff and there is a vast gulf between the knowledgable, helpful ones and the ignorant, money grabbing ones , I would always double check anything I am told.
[/quote]

thankyou for the advice! i agree i would never want to think of one dying unnessacerily i hate when people say "oh it was just a fish" when i hear of gold fish, other pet fish dying, they are still a living creature and a pet. im very very glad to have found this forum you are all tremendously helpful and informative, i hate that pet shops can give out such rubbish advice, but im well aware they do like(it would seem) fish, rabbits get a raw deal as people get sold them from pet shops put them in a small hutch and dont understand their needs or why things happen, im always very cautious of not researching any pet these days! i didnt realise most marine were wild caught, that makes me sad is it more expensive or difficult to buy domestic bred fish? as i hate to think suddenly its gone from wild to tank though im sure that anyone of you who has a wild caught fish looks after them very well, surely they find adapting to tank life difficult and have a different behaviour pattern?
me and my freind definatly have a huge amount of reading to do (and possibly some penny saving too as was expecting around £750-£1000 for a decent tank and set up and fish...but sounds like it will cost a lot lot more if she wants the blue regal tang,

 

[HappyGeorge]

You could stick to species that are tank bred but I'm 99.9% sure that Regal Blue Tangs are all wild caught, someone told me they need to be very deep in water for their mating rituals. You can get tank bred clowns easily, as for others I'm not sure I think a lot of Bangai cardinals and Chromis are tank bred. As for your comments about adjustment you are quite right some have very specific food requirements and in some cases they starve to death having never adjusted to tank life, sad I know
As for the budget, you could always look out for someone selling an established tank otherwise you're probably looking at at least £800 just for the 5ft tank. I think I'm up to over £2000 and that's on a 3ft tank with some of the stuff 2nd hand, and although its paid for I haven't even had the tank delivered yet!

 

[Donya]

so i really want to find out she says i can set up the tank and sort the fish out and then all she has to do is maintain with feeding and cleaning and it can look good in her new house!!!! i have no issues with setting up for her but i need to be sure im doing it right, she will care for the fish and i know she very much wants them but i think its a case of her being ignorant to the initial start up needs! (ps she has never owned a pet before either)

I was about to chime in with regards to the wild-caught stuff and other livestock-related discussion, but then I scrolled back up and saw this part. I know companies do this sort of thing all the time, setting up a tank for a client so that all the client has to do is feed the fish and change filter bits every so often. However, the assumption is that, in exchange for not having to become familiar with every detail of what's being set up, the client will ring up the company any time something goes wrong and the company will fix it (for a fee of course). For the best chance of success, your friend should really be equally if not more invested in the setup and research. It's great that you're doing a lot of reading on how to make it a good start, but I worry that she might not as interested in the project as you are if the information flow is unidirectional. If your friend has actually taken the initiative on reading and preparing for the project, then more power to both of you - but please don't create a tank for someone who isn't ready to engage it fully from the start.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Fishforfreinds. I am happy to see you have found the salty side of TFF. I found your intro thread in new to the hobby and followed you here to see how you are doing. As a freshwater specialist, I must back out and leave you in the able hands of seffieuk and ianho who know much more about this side of things than I ever will.

 

[seffieuk]

thankyou to everyone i rang her today she said that she may well join the forum herself!!! im really pleased im going to be reading up a lot myself as definatly think id like to start my own tank too, im sure that the pair of us will learn a lot from you all! be aware though i will ask lots of questions and i wont be able to offer anyone any advice in return until i have a lot more expierinace!!!!

We look forward to following both of your adventures and we will happily help you along the way

Seffie x