Help! New Walstad, High Ammonia & Nitrates!

[sn0wlvlan]

I've recently setup a new 24gallon Walstad tank. Day 3 and 4 in, I'm seeing high ammonia and nitrate values. Daily water changes, but still high. Your valuable opinions are appreciated! Details below:

• DIRT: 0.5 - 1 inch (normal garden soil with no fertilizer and removed organic matters, mixed with some crushed lava rock)
• CAPPING: 1 inch Medium Montana Sand
• PLANTS: Around 29 plants (split into smaller portions) spread into smaller portions
  • Epiphytes: Anubias, Java Fern
  • Stems (still mid length need to wait it out to grow): Limnophila Sessiliflora, Rotala Macrandra, Ludwigia Repens, Myriophyllum, Limnophila Aquatica
  • Foreground: Monte Carlo, HC, Mini Hairgrass, Eriocaulon Quinquangulare, Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis, Alternanthera Reineckii, Ludwigia Palustris, Cryptocoryne Parva

TANK:

WATER TEST (measured before water change) & MAINTENANCE:
DAY 1:

Then did a 90% water change for the first time (apart from water change during first setup).
Added API Aqua Essential, API Quickstart (BB), API Leaf Zone

DAY 3:

30 - 40% water change
Added API Aqua Essential, API Quickstart (BB), API Leaf Zone

DAY 4:

30% water change
Added API Aqua Essential, API Quickstart (BB), API Leaf Zone

Are these normal or part of the cycling process for walstad? It's normal for spikes to happen during the start, but these values seem too high consistently. Do I keep doing my maintenance routine, or is there any changes I should make?

Thanks in advance!
 

 

[GaryE]

It's been many years since I read Walstad's book. It was detailed, I recall. What does she say about this?

She researched hard, and going back to the source when the source is that credible is always a good idea. I've seen a lot of online stuff about 'Walstad tanks' that are not what Walstad worked on.

 

[connorlindeman]

It looks like you need more fast-growing plants.
More ludwigia, maybe add some hornwort.

 

[Essjay]

Have you tested your tap water for nitrate?

 

[DAnCSF]

Here's a silly observation - do you have any fish in the tank? Going back to basics...and the nitrogen cycle. It all takes time...for the cycle to establish itself. If you have no fish in the tank what's the worry? On the other hand if you plan to introduce, fish why not start with 1 or 2 to get the cycle going or you can do a fishless cycling. Again go back to the basics. There's plenty of help here in the site.

 

[Byron]

High ammonia is common with soil substrates and this is a major issue with these tanks. Even on Diana's forum (not sure if this is still active) some knowledgeable members advocated a "dry start" and not adding any fish for six months, primarily because of the ammonia.

As for nitrate, have you tested the source water?

Third observation, you should not see any "cycling" in well-planted tanks. The ammonia will be taken up by the plants, and faster than the nitrifying bacteria can do it, which means less nitrite and then less nitrate will appear. However, the soil adds complications to this which do not occur with inert substrates of sand or fine gravel.

 

[Colin_T]

Completely normal for a dirt based tank. Wait until the stuff stops releasing ammonia and other things and then add fish. It could be a while so get a fish screen saver to look at in the mean time.

 

[sn0wlvlan]

It looks like you need more fast-growing plants.
More ludwigia, maybe add some hornwort.

Okay, more fast growing plants or column feeders will help to absorb the spike I guess. I thought with the dense plants should be fine (the whole background are the stems). Plan to add floaters eventually but after the plants grow out more first.

 

[sn0wlvlan]

Have you tested your tap water for nitrate?

My tap water gives me 5ppm nitrates

 

[sn0wlvlan]

Here's a silly observation - do you have any fish in the tank? Going back to basics...and the nitrogen cycle. It all takes time...for the cycle to establish itself. If you have no fish in the tank what's the worry? On the other hand if you plan to introduce, fish why not start with 1 or 2 to get the cycle going or you can do a fishless cycling. Again go back to the basics. There's plenty of help here in the site.

There's no fish in the tank yet. I thought of fishless cycling during the start now since I already have higher ammonia. Adding in livestock may worsen it?

 

[sn0wlvlan]

High ammonia is common with soil substrates and this is a major issue with these tanks. Even on Diana's forum (not sure if this is still active) some knowledgeable members advocated a "dry start" and not adding any fish for six months, primarily because of the ammonia.

As for nitrate, have you tested the source water?

Third observation, you should not see any "cycling" in well-planted tanks. The ammonia will be taken up by the plants, and faster than the nitrifying bacteria can do it, which means less nitrite and then less nitrate will appear. However, the soil adds complications to this which do not occur with inert substrates of sand or fine gravel.

Yea plants should primarily do the filtering. Source nitrates as above 5ppm.
I've seen many materials as you've said walstad does not really require long cycling, as plants will do the work. Does this indicate like what @connorlindeman said, I do not have enough fast growing plants? Stems are mostly behind, epiphytes onto driftwood, middle some pearlweed and sessiliflora, others around the foreground. Or is it simply just isn't planted enough, cause I can't really find more space unless I reduce the foreground sections.


Plants layout here:

 

[sn0wlvlan]

Completely normal for a dirt based tank. Wait until the stuff stops releasing ammonia and other things and then add fish. It could be a while so get a fish screen saver to look at in the mean time.

Thanks @Colin_T. So I guess my current daily maintenance with water changes % should be ok right?

 

[GaryE]

I'd look at what @Byron said. Walstads are not for the impatient. A standard tank cycling can take days. A Walstad settling can take months. I doubt there is a floating plant that grows fast enough to absorb the ammonia from the early stages of a Walstad. Still, you will have some beautiful plants to admire, and it is a plants first system. Maybe by JMay or une that one will be set. It takes time.

 

[connorlindeman]

I'd look at what @Byron said. Walstads are not for the impatient. A standard tank cycling can take days. A Walstad settling can take months. I doubt there is a floating plant that grows fast enough to absorb the ammonia from the early stages of a Walstad. Still, you will have some beautiful plants to admire, and it is a plants first system. Maybe by JMay or une that one will be set. It takes time.

I have three Walstad and all were fully cycled in a matter of days. Not weeks not months.
Fast growing stem plants are the key.

 

[Essjay]

Did your substrate leach ammonia? If it did, how long did it take to get the ammonia down to zero, just a dew days? Some substrates can leach ammonia for months.