Help me with ammonia and nitrites

[FishNewbie82912]

Okay I’ve had a 25 gal and 10 gal aquariums for 2 years but I’m mush starting my 75 gallon. And I’m lost. I used media from the established tanks and things started good. I know I got over excited and over stocked.
75 gallon -
10 peacock cichlids (2 inches roughly)
2 electric yellow lab? (1 inch)
4 rainbow fish (2 adults 2 juv)
2 clown plecos
Yes I know I over did it but I couldn’t resist the impulse purchases
I’ve been getting ammonia readings of 1ppm but my nitrites were 0 and nitrates were 10ppm. Now today the nitrites read .5 to 1.0 (hard to tell).
Ph 8.2
Temp 80
3 air stones
2 aquaclear 70 hob filters
2 200w heaters
I have aqua clear ammonia reducing pouches in each filter.
I add SeaChem cichlid salt and lake buffer too

Gravel substrate. No live plants just fake decor.

I’ve been using SeaChem stability and prime this past week to help me. I was using api quick start and stress coat prior.

I added the SeaChem amguard to help me when I couldn’t do a water change because i had no time.

I did do a 30% change yesterday with vacuuming and the levels above are today’s readings. Help me!

 

[mbsqw1d]

Is ph8.2 after water change and adding buffer? Just wonder if your PH dropped and killed your cycle? Do you know your water source's KH?

 

[nik_n]

You should add live plants because they will pull nutrients out of the water. Especially floating plants, mosses, Anubis and java ferns. I suggest you add beneficial bacteria from the bottles, you can get it a your LFS. Did you clean the filters in the same time you vacuumed the gravel?

 

[FishNewbie82912]

You should add live plants because they will pull nutrients out of the water. Especially floating plants, mosses, Anubis and java ferns. I suggest you add beneficial bacteria from the bottles, you can get it a your LFS. Did you clean the filters in the same time you vacuumed the gravel?

Yes I did because my filters were full of floating debris. I did a quick rinse. But typically I don’t. Can I add plants even with cichlid salts? That won’t kill them?

 

[FishNewbie82912]

Is ph8.2 after water change and adding buffer? Just wonder if your PH dropped and killed your cycle? Do you know your water source's KH?

My ph is lower. I forget but 7.0 maybe. My gh and kh are also low. For instance with the api test kit I add about 4 drops to my water from the tap but once I buffer I get to 12-14 drops. For cichlids is suggested 12 and up for their needs of hardness. I forget the actual ranges

 

[mbsqw1d]

My ph is lower. I forget but 7.0 maybe. My gh and kh are also low. For instance with the api test kit I add about 4 drops to my water from the tap but once I buffer I get to 12-14 drops. For cichlids is suggested 12 and up for their needs of hardness. I forget the actual ranges

Ah ok, you'll need to keep a close eye on your PH if your KH is low or else your cycle can crash.

If the PH is low enough, ammonia becomes ammonium and cannot be used by the traditional nitrifying bacteria. Ammonium will show up on ammonia test kits (they test for TAN - total ammonia nitrogen).
If your PH has dropped and the tank has (non-toxic) ammonium, the danger of a water change is that the PH will rise and convert the ammonium back into toxic ammonia.

 

[FishNewbie82912]

Ah ok, you'll need to keep a close eye on your PH if your KH is low or else your cycle can crash.

If the PH is low enough, ammonia becomes ammonium and cannot be used by the traditional nitrifying bacteria. Ammonium will show up on ammonia test kits (they test for TAN - total ammonia nitrogen).
If your PH has dropped and the tank has (non-toxic) ammonium, the danger of a water change is that the PH will rise and convert the ammonium back into toxic ammonia.

What do I do about nitrites being present? Ive dealt with ammonia spikes but nitrites worry me. I’m sure I went through that in the beginning of my other tanks but I was so green I don’t think I even tested regularly. Luckily my fish survived (for the most part)

 

[Uberhoust]

The path from NH3 (Ammonia - poisonous) to NO3 (Nitrate - not as poisonous) goes through 2 stages each with different bacteria (I would have to look up their names).

NH3 (from fish waste etc) -> bacterial action -> Nitrite (NO2 very poisonous) -> bacterial action -> Nitrate (NO3 not as poisonous).

When you first start the tank, with water from the tap, you shouldn't have any of these (the exception is some Nitrate is acceptable in some water supplies).

Cycle Stages (these are just for illustration):

1. Introduction of ammonia to the tank (decomposing food, direct introduction of ammonia, starting with small number of fish...). At this stage there are very few ammonia feeding bacteria and the ammonia will spike in the tank.
2. Ammonia bacteria start to grow in numbers you start to see a drop in ammonia, and a bit more nitrite.
3. Ammonia consuming bacteria well established, Nitrite levels spike. Nitrite bacteria start to develop in the tank.
4. Nitrite consuming bacteria established, the tank should have 0 ammonia, maybe a trace of nitrite, but now you are getting the final product of the bacterial action, Nitrate (NO3) should be present but at low values ie 5 ppm or less
5. Cycled tank establish bacterial action for both Ammonia and Nitrite, Nitrate levels higher 5-20 ppm

You end up with various peaks of nitrogen compounds starting with a peak of Ammonia, followed by a peak of Nitrite, followed by a peak of Nitrate. The nitrate can only be removed by water changes or by plant growth but it is not nearly as poisonous as the other two compounds.

The one thing to remember is that to maintain the cycle you have to feed the cycle. That means if you have an establish bed of bacteria and remove their food (Ammonia and Nitrite) means that the numbers of bacteria that process the poisonous nitrogen compounds will reduce in number, meaning adding addition of new ammonia producing organism will cause a smaller version of the spikes in ammonia and nitrite.

Feeding the cycle is the issue when you use Ammonia absorbing products. These products trap the ammonia and it is no longer available to the bacteria, this makes it hard to get the bacteria established and forms a vicious cycle where you don't have enough bacteria so you artificially remove the ammonia which reduces the bacteria further.

The other issue is you are trying to drive up the pH, the higher the pH the more Ammonia is in the water, in a acidic environment more of the waste is in the form of Ammonium which is not as poisonous. Understand why you are doing it because of the fish you have.

I would suggest at this time to put a pre filter on the 25 gallon for a bit, maybe a week, then transfer that to the AC 70 on your tank. When you transfer the prefilter over remove the ammonia absorbing products from the tank and monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels. If they get too high then control them by water changes, a 50% water change will reduce the ammonia by 50%. I would also be a bit cautious about the Cichlid salt and lake buffer. Take a look at the source water and see how far out you are from the ideal pH and hardness for your fish species, if you are close I wouldn't mess with them because they will be complicating the issue at this time.

Other than reducing the Ammonia and Nitrite everything you do should be slow and gradual.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Very thorough post. The only thing I would add is that some of the newer ammonia/nitrite detoxifiers claim to keep the nutrients available to the beneficial bacteria even while rendering them nontoxic (Seachem Prime is one of them). I haven’t seen any detrimental effect on the filter when I’ve used it. And to specifically address the asker’s concern over the elevated nitrite levels, Prime claims to neutralize all 3 (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.) It does stink though, unfortunately ?

 

[FishNewbie82912]

Thanks for the helpful advice. I did dose with prime to help with nitrites and I plan a big water change tomorrow. With my ammonia and nitrite spiking and with all the water changes I feel I’ll never get to establish my beneficial bacteria. I’ve never changed so much water in my life.

In a desperate move I did steal the entire sponge on my 25 gal. I have aquaclear 70 on that one so the sponge fits. Hopefully this gets me ahead of the nitrite curve.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Thanks for the helpful advice. I did dose with prime to help with nitrites and I plan a big water change tomorrow. With my ammonia and nitrite spiking and with all the water changes I feel I’ll never get to establish my beneficial bacteria. I’ve never changed so much water in my life.

In a desperate move I did steal the entire sponge on my 25 gal. I have aquaclear 70 on that one so the sponge fits. Hopefully this gets me ahead of the nitrite curve.

You could try one of the bacteria in a bottle prodicts, Dr Tim's has good reviews. That could go towards helping get your cycle back up and running. Are buffering you KH too? Its key that you keep and eye on your tank's KH and PH as I think thats been the culprit here

 

[FishNewbie82912]

You could try one of the bacteria in a bottle prodicts, Dr Tim's has good reviews. That could go towards helping get your cycle back up and running. Are buffering you KH too? Its key that you keep and eye on your tank's KH and PH as I think thats been the culprit here

My ph is maintaining at 8.2 but yes I add a buffer to keep it.

I did a 40% water change yesterday and retested today and the nitrites are even higher today! Wtf is going on. The ammonia was 0.5. The nitrites were 2!

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Sounds like the way a typical cycle goes. Ammonia builds then starts getting lower and disappears completely once bacteria #1 get established. Meanwhile, Nitrite starts building until bacteria #2 get established and then starts getting lower and disappears. Nitrate has to be there for cycle to be complete but it starts showing up before nitrite bacteria fully established. So I would just keep doing the water changes and adding in the detoxifier as needed until cycle matures. (Ammonia and nitrite read 0 for a few days in a row and nitrate is present.)

 

[FloridaChick]

Wow! I never realized how technical having fish is. Many of us started with a free goldfish in a bowl from a fair ?

 

[FishNewbie82912]

Sounds like the way a typical cycle goes. Ammonia builds then starts getting lower and disappears completely once bacteria #1 get established. Meanwhile, Nitrite starts building until bacteria #2 get established and then starts getting lower and disappears. Nitrate has to be there for cycle to be complete but it starts showing up before nitrite bacteria fully established. So I would just keep doing the water changes and adding in the detoxifier as needed until cycle matures. (Ammonia and nitrite read 0 for a few days in a row and nitrate is present.)

Thanks my ammonia is going way down but
Nitrites remain. Did a big water change today. Hopefully getting over this curve soon.