Help Me Sex These Two New Bettas

[trojannemo]

well i wasn't even shopping for bettas today when i happened upon these at the LFS. when they saw me come in they pointed them out to me because i was the one who had mentioned they should put in special orders for more exotic bettas some weeks back...
anyways, this is what i got:

paid $19.99 for this one, making it officially my most expensive fish this far...
i was told its a male, i'm assuming if it is then it's Plakat. no ovipositor (sp?) visible but it behaves like a female. it's in a partitioned tank right now with males on either side. both males are going crazy flaring and this one still hasn't flared once. if it's a girl, it's big and chunky (bigger than my other 4 by far!) and if its a guy, he's a little wimp then. when i was putting him/her in the tank, it jumped out of my net onto the partition where my HM male is, and my HM started going crazy after it right away, and the white one just kept running/shying away. i moved it out in time though, nothing happened.

and i also got this one, my first time to ever see a black betta in person. not exactly the most exotic finnage but oh well:

this one also refuses to flare at anything. no ovipositor visible either, but also behaves like a female. fins are different than my other females. top fin looks like a dagger or something, really sharp and pointy. bottom fin looks like a male plakat i believe, but the tail doesnt (to me anyways).

I apologize for the crappy picture, but my camera is having a hard time capturing a black fish it seems...


so what are the sexes? the black one is in a breeder net within my main tank. if it's a female, i will keep it with my other females. if it's a male i have to return it or find another one, as i can't have any more males

thanks!

EDIT: both the top fin on the white, and the tail fin on the black, came damaged like that from the LFS. it didnt matter to me 'cause i dont mind healing them back. in other words, the damage was not caused by my other fish! both of these are isolated (read above) until sex can be determined!

 

[tangokitty]

They are really nice looking bettas, Love the colors! But, Sadly I am not a betta expert, so I don't know what sexes they are.

 

[azulfire24]

dont know they do look and act a little girls, but the fins are long?? they both look a little thin at the moment, the black espicialy, try keeping them a while and she if they eggs up and drop eggs while placed in the divider next to a male, the subbmissive behavior dose say more female, but a young, stressed out male could do the same thing.

 

[trojannemo]

yeah the black one is a little thin. a little thinner than my females even. and it's also showing stress lines, which I've heard males can do, but my males have never shown them before, i've only seen it in females.

ideally for me, the black would be a female, and the white a male. in that case i can put the black one in my community tank with my other females, and I could breed the white plakat with my white/iridescent female and get some pretty babies...when and if i ever breed them!

anyways....modaz! constantite! bronzecat! everyone else!

 

[jess6905]

they are probably stressed for being moved around and thats why they aren't flaring for you. to me they are both plakat males. im 99.9% positive of this. everything about them visually screams male to me. they are both stunning fish, and when you get the black one fattened up a bit he will look amazing.

 

[trojannemo]

we'll see i guess. if they're both plakat males i made out well...the white one cost me $19.99 but the black one was only $7.99

 

[Phoenixbaby]

neither look like plakats

the anal fin is too long and pointy

plakats are more blunt and squared off

heres my male pk, note the squared off anal fin

 

[modaz]

very hard to sex due to their positioning, they could quite easily be PK as the pinned back fins could well be PK fins, we wont know until there are pics of them once settled in and both attempting to flare.

 

[ibbledibble]

i would agree with modaz that its difficult to tell from those pics, but i would get that black one into a quarantine tank immediately and hope you haven't introduced something to the tank.
the dorsal fin should not be that shape, which means its either sticky fins or its constantly clamped, and he's very thin. i would start treating with anti internal bacteria meds and anti internal parasite meds ASAP. also the greyish marks near the head, are they actually there? or are they just from the camera? because if they are there i would also be considering fungus as a possible issue. if they are just photographic issues, then don't worry about that bit.

 

[trojannemo]

i would agree with modaz that its difficult to tell from those pics, but i would get that black one into a quarantine tank immediately and hope you haven't introduced something to the tank.
the dorsal fin should not be that shape, which means its either sticky fins or its constantly clamped, and he's very thin. i would start treating with anti internal bacteria meds and anti internal parasite meds ASAP. also the greyish marks near the head, are they actually there? or are they just from the camera? because if they are there i would also be considering fungus as a possible issue. if they are just photographic issues, then don't worry about that bit.

i apologize for the confusion created by the picture. none of those things are issues. her fin was just clamped for that picture, but she's fine. the fine is actually very nice and tall. the gray spots are from a dirty tank 'cause i had just done a major water change that day

i've released both of them (before seeing your comment on the possible bacteria) into the tank and if behavior says anything, they're both females. the other females swim around them and nothing happens. as a matter of fact, my much smaller blue VT female is flaring and trying to bully the much bigger white one...so i'm convinced these two are females now...

my question then, why was that white one $19.99 when bettas at that store usually cost me <$5? seeing how big she is, could she be one of those "giants"? how can i tell? i'll try to measure her later, but she's bigger than my other 5 females, in body as big as my older VT male

 

[Frollickyfish]

If there are several females in the tank already and as they are new they may not be acting as aggressive males yet. Ive had what I thought were females in with my other females and it was a couple of weeks before they became aggressive so be carefull! They do look like they may be male PKs to me and my male PKs do have long pointy anal fins like yours and Ive spawned from them so they are definitely males lol! The only way to know for sure would be to put them in a breeder in with one of your males, feed loads of blood worm over a few days and see if they start dropping eggs but watch carefully as they may eat them before you spot them lol!

 

[ibbledibble]

If there are several females in the tank already and as they are new they may not be acting as aggressive males yet. Ive had what I thought were females in with my other females and it was a couple of weeks before they became aggressive so be carefull! They do look like they may be male PKs to me and my male PKs do have long pointy anal fins like yours and Ive spawned from them so they are definitely males lol! The only way to know for sure would be to put them in a breeder in with one of your males, feed loads of blood worm over a few days and see if they start dropping eggs but watch carefully as they may eat them before you spot them lol!

yup agreed with this. this is my male HMPK who i have spawned and modaz has spawned. definately male and he has a pointed anal fin.

i was always under the impresion that a square anal fin was a sign of a female PK, like these one's of mine,

but i'm totally confused by sexing these days, as it seems almost impossible to tell! and what looks male turns out to be female and what looks male turns out to be female!

 

[lilfishie]

they both look male to me, they both have longer venticals than a female would

 

[Leedsboi86]

Whats the other thing on side of picture?
is it the reflection of the fish? if so why has it got red on it? 0.0

Or is it another fishie been nosey? hehe

 

[trojannemo]

Whats the other thing on side of picture?
is it the reflection of the fish? if so why has it got red on it? 0.0

Or is it another fishie been nosey? hehe

that's the dorsal and tail fins of my young angel. remember the betta was in a clear breeder tank inside of the big tank, so fish were swimming by it all the time, including the females who are very nosy. i did that purposefully to see what kind of reaction i would get.

so there's still no concesus on their sexes huh? maybe i oughta rush home and check i dont have dead fishies