Help identifying cichlids and tank size

[JaysTank]

Hi guys

I'm looking to redesign my current 325L/85.5g tank, 130*55*55cm/51*19.5*19.5inches, to something similar to the look you see in the picture. Could you help me identify the cichlids seen in the photo and a guestimate of the size of the tank they are in?

Edit: My guess, as a total cichlid noob are:

• Demasoni Cichlid Pseudotropheus sp. Demasoni (Pombo Rocks)
• Red Zebra
• Powder Blue

 

[Wills]

Hi this sounds interesting! I'm working on an Mbuna tank at the moment too

In the pic I think you are right overall but to give you up to date scientific names as Malawi are a bit hard to research as the names change so much. The striped ones are Chindongo Demasoni - not necessarily Pombo Rocks though, quite a common tank bred species so unless they are wild they won't have the location. The pale blue ones are either Chindongo Socolofi or Metriaclima Callainos and the orange ones are Red Zebras Metriaclima Estherae. The orange ones might also be female Metriaclima Msobo Magunga with the male being the black and blue fish on the right in the middle above the two orange fish.

In a tank your size think about having 4 'slots' in each of the slots you have 1 male and 4-7 females as a maximum but you could do less.

I don't love the mix of species in this tank, Demasoni are one of the more aggressive species, even though they are quite common they pack quite a punch. I also don't like that the mix has either 2 Chindongo species or 2 Metriaclima species. You could actually do something visually quite similar with 2 species which would be Chindongo Saulosi which has black and blue striped males and yellow/orange females and Metriaclima Callainos from the pic above. I'd do 3 male Saulosi and 1 male Calianos with 4 females for each male Saulosi and 5 for the Estherae. Then you'd have 3 black and blue bar fish, 12 yellow/orange fish and 6 pale blue fish.

I was going to do a mixed species tank in my 75 but recently decided to just go for a single species tank which will be Metriaclima Msobo Magunga as the males are so unique and the females are bright orange. I think my plan is 3 males 12 females... but I do also want some of the pale blue so might do a small group of Socolofi.... 1m 4f

If you choose to do more than one male of one species always do at least 3 males

Wills

 

[JaysTank]

Hi this sounds interesting! I'm working on an Mbuna tank at the moment too

In the pic I think you are right overall but to give you up to date scientific names as Malawi are a bit hard to research as the names change so much. The striped ones are Chindongo Demasoni - not necessarily Pombo Rocks though, quite a common tank bred species so unless they are wild they won't have the location. The pale blue ones are either Chindongo Socolofi or Metriaclima Callainos and the orange ones are Red Zebras Metriaclima Estherae. The orange ones might also be female Metriaclima Msobo Magunga with the male being the black and blue fish on the right in the middle above the two orange fish.

In a tank your size think about having 4 'slots' in each of the slots you have 1 male and 4-7 females as a maximum but you could do less.

I don't love the mix of species in this tank, Demasoni are one of the more aggressive species, even though they are quite common they pack quite a punch. I also don't like that the mix has either 2 Chindongo species or 2 Metriaclima species. You could actually do something visually quite similar with 2 species which would be Chindongo Saulosi which has black and blue striped males and yellow/orange females and Metriaclima Callainos from the pic above. I'd do 3 male Saulosi and 1 male Calianos with 4 females for each male Saulosi and 5 for the Estherae. Then you'd have 3 black and blue bar fish, 12 yellow/orange fish and 6 pale blue fish.

I was going to do a mixed species tank in my 75 but recently decided to just go for a single species tank which will be Metriaclima Msobo Magunga as the males are so unique and the females are bright orange. I think my plan is 3 males 12 females... but I do also want some of the pale blue so might do a small group of Socolofi.... 1m 4f

If you choose to do more than one male of one species always do at least 3 males

Wills

That's a great description @Wills, thanks a ton! I didn't think about that it could cause trouble to have 2 Chindongo or 2 Metriaclima species in the tank.

So if I understand you correctly I would do 4 slots, or packs of fish I suppose, like this:

Also: Do you have any other suggestions for a cichlid type that would go well, and look great in a setup like this, let's say I swapped out slot 3 with another pack of 1Male/4-5Female

1. slot (Chindongo saulosi)
3Male
12Female

2. slot (Chindongo saulosi)
1Male
4Female

3. slot (Chindongo saulosi)
1Male
4Female

4. slot (Metriaclima Callainos - also called Maylandia?)
1Male
5Female

 

[Wills]

That's a great description @Wills, thanks a ton! I didn't think about that it could cause trouble to have 2 Chindongo or 2 Metriaclima species in the tank.

So if I understand you correctly I would do 4 slots, or packs of fish I suppose, like this:

Also: Do you have any other suggestions for a cichlid type that would go well, and look great in a setup like this, let's say I swapped out slot 3 with another pack of 1Male/4-5Female

1. slot (Chindongo saulosi)
3Male
12Female

2. slot (Chindongo saulosi)
1Male
4Female

3. slot (Chindongo saulosi)
1Male
4Female

4. slot (Metriaclima Callainos - also called Maylandia?)
1Male
5Female

No problem when it comes to mixing the groups its not an exact science as the groupings are a bit confusing but the more you can diversify the look of each species (stripes, colours, headshapes) it helps dilute aggression in a tank. The names are constantly being updated and refined so worth trying to keep upto date but Chindongo replaces a lot of Pseudotropheus and Metriaclima are often ex Maylandia species but also take in some Pseudotropheus, Pseudotropheus seems to be a big bucket species name before they get reclassified. One of the advantages of choosing only one of each family it helps cut down the risk of hybrids but still remember that all mbuna can hybridize so you need to have a plan to control breeding - a group of Synodontis catfish usually do the trick

I think its a typo but just to clarify on slot one of your list it would be 1m 4f not 3 and 12

If you wanted to do more than 2 species I'd go for 4 different species but you would only have one vertically striped fish with the male Saulosi and the yellow females would fill an other niche. If you kept the Callainos as your Metriaclima/Maylandia species that would give you the solid bright blue. I'd then be tempted by something like White Tailed Acei for a purple/indigo body with white fins, Mainganio for horizontal black and blue bars (you might need a bigger group of these), Rusties might be a good option - lavender bodies and bronzy top and bottom. A Labeotropheus species might be possible but not for everyone with their funny faces, quite a big fish too so you really have to be into them to keep them as they take over the tank visually in some respects.

Some people do say that you can mixed solid coloured and striped Metriaclima so I'm wondering about Kawanga Golds which are vertical black and yellow stripes (thoguh drab females) - but then could they clash with the striped Chindongo Saulosi...

Its an interesting sort of puzzle to work out what you'll be happy with, what gives the best coverage of colours and patterns and whats most likely to thrive in each others company (the last point being the most important).

I think a good mix would be 5 Chindongo Saulosi, 5 Metriaclima Callainos, 5 Pseudotrophus sp. Acei Ngara and 8 Melanochromis sp. Maingaino. That gives you loads of colours, the Maingaino are probably the most aggressive but meant to be ok in higher numbers and they are monomorphic so males and females look very similar, the Acei should live in the top third, females are a bit more drab but not much in it, the Callainos are kind of the same, and you get the great dimorphic look of the Saulosi. No real heavy hitters in there 4 males to spread aggression and enough fish in total to make sure no one fish should get too much grief at any one time.

Wills

 

[JaysTank]

I think its a typo but just to clarify on slot one of your list it would be 1m 4f not 3 and 12

Oh yes, haha. I first wrote the general amount of M/F of the two species but afterwards decided to split it up into the 4 slots for (my own) easier understand, but forgot to also split the male to female ratio-numbers up as well.

You are right about the amount of stripes, I really like the look and contrast that brings into the tank. However som red'ish fish would be a super nice little eye catcher/"wow that are they doing there"-experience.

I think a good mix would be 5 Chindongo Saulosi, 5 Metriaclima Callainos, 5 Pseudotrophus sp. Acei Ngara and 8 Melanochromis sp. Maingaino. That gives you loads of colours, the Maingaino are probably the most aggressive but meant to be ok in higher numbers and they are monomorphic so males and females look very similar, the Acei should live in the top third, females are a bit more drab but not much in it, the Callainos are kind of the same, and you get the great dimorphic look of the Saulosi. No real heavy hitters in there 4 males to spread aggression and enough fish in total to make sure no one fish should get too much grief at any one time.

That seems like a really sick suggestion you made there. How do you think the Labeotropheus trewavasea (the ones with the red/rusty fins and lighter blue body) would fit in personality wise instead of the Pseudotropheus sp. Acei Ngara? As I think the darker blue/black colours would be covered nicely by the Melanochromis sp. Maingano already.

And is there a difference in what area of the tank the different types stay? Or are they all generally around the rocks all the time?

 

[Wills]

Oh yes, haha. I first wrote the general amount of M/F of the two species but afterwards decided to split it up into the 4 slots for (my own) easier understand, but forgot to also split the male to female ratio-numbers up as well.

You are right about the amount of stripes, I really like the look and contrast that brings into the tank. However som red'ish fish would be a super nice little eye catcher/"wow that are they doing there"-experience.



That seems like a really sick suggestion you made there. How do you think the Labeotropheus trewavasea (the ones with the red/rusty fins and lighter blue body) would fit in personality wise instead of the Pseudotropheus sp. Acei Ngara? As I think the darker blue/black colours would be covered nicely by the Melanochromis sp. Maingano already.

And is there a difference in what area of the tank the different types stay? Or are they all generally around the rocks all the time?

The only issue with Trewavasea is the bright blue body might cause problems with the Callainos - its not a guaranteed problem but there could be visually more different species to go for? You can get a Labeotropheus that is the otherway round with red bodies and blue/white fins, I can't remember the name though... What do you think of Rusties? Iodotropheus Sprengerae, probably visually different enough from the others, smaller than the Labeotropheus, bit more predictable in terms of

In terms of other behaviours most Mbuna will stay in and around the rocks but some species differ a little - Acei species are generally found quite high in the water columns and often in large groups, they tend to live around the shoreline in rocks and wood so are a bit different. Labidochromis species are different as well as they venture out a little bit more than most Mbuna and sometimes swim in the open water more often than spending time in the rocks. I wouldnt do yellow labs in this tank but what about white labs? That would be a good colour introduction to the tank and a bit of a different behaviour - just be careful with the strain of Callainos you get as some of them can be a bit white - you can also get OB Callainos which look really cool.

 

[JaysTank]

The only issue with Trewavasea is the bright blue body might cause problems with the Callainos - its not a guaranteed problem but there could be visually more different species to go for? You can get a Labeotropheus that is the otherway round with red bodies and blue/white fins, I can't remember the name though... What do you think of Rusties? Iodotropheus Sprengerae, probably visually different enough from the others, smaller than the Labeotropheus, bit more predictable in terms of

Wow I love the rusties, I wasn't able to find them before as I didn't have the full name for them, but they look faboulus.

I wouldnt do yellow labs in this tank but what about white labs? That would be a good colour introduction to the tank and a bit of a different behaviour - just be careful with the strain of Callainos you get as some of them can be a bit white - you can also get OB Callainos which look really cool.

Holy moly the white labs ( Labidochromis caeruleus (Nkhata Bay)?) looks stunning! And they would look magnificent with the Pseudotrophus sp. Acei Ngara I believe. You are introducing a lot of amazing things here Wills, I have to reconsider my original thoughts!

I actually think that the Saulosi might have to go, and make space for some of the others. The OB means 'Orange Blotch' correct? As far as I could understand from a Danish website I'm reading the OB variation can be found in the Metriaclima Caillanos and a bunch of other varities (benetos, emmiltos and estherae to name a few?) and they really do look cool.
This was called an OB Red Zebra Metriaclima Estherae, that is pretty stunning and would also contrast very well with the Pseudotrophus sp. Acei Ngara and the Melanochromis sp. Maingaino.

If the Pseudotrophus sp. Acei Ngara generally swims higher in the water column, or atleast venture upwards would the following be feasible:

• 4 Pseudotrophus sp. Acei Ngara
  • 1 male 4 female
• 4 Metriaclima Estherae
  • 1 male 4 female
• 4 White Labs
  • 1 male 4 female
• 8 Melanochromis sp. Maingaino
  • 2 male 8 female

 

[Wills]

I hadn't thought of how Acei Ngara and White Labs would look but yeah you are right that would be really cool!

I think your 4 groups that you've mentioned would work really nicely I do like Mbuna tanks that manage to get a Lab and an Acei species in there as you should get some different behaviours from them as well. There are a lot of different variants and strains of Estherae worth checking out, there is one where you get really orange females and blue males which might be a nice feature in this mix as well.

OB does mean Orange Blotch but it is applied in Malawi tanks in a few different ways but I think for Mbuna it is really fascinating. In Peacocks they are typically hybrids that exploit some hidden genes but in Mbuna, its totally natural, its from a period in their history where their patterns didn't replicate exactly as you'd expect in a stable species and sometimes a female fish will throw out fry with a gene that means they present as orange blotch, sometimes its quite subtle but other times its really unexpected like that one you shared above. If you get an OB male from that female I think they can then start to pass it on if you breed from them as well but not guaranteed.

Wills

 

[JaysTank]

I hadn't thought of how Acei Ngara and White Labs would look but yeah you are right that would be really cool!

I think your 4 groups that you've mentioned would work really nicely I do like Mbuna tanks that manage to get a Lab and an Acei species in there as you should get some different behaviours from them as well. There are a lot of different variants and strains of Estherae worth checking out, there is one where you get really orange females and blue males which might be a nice feature in this mix as well.

OB does mean Orange Blotch but it is applied in Malawi tanks in a few different ways but I think for Mbuna it is really fascinating. In Peacocks they are typically hybrids that exploit some hidden genes but in Mbuna, its totally natural, its from a period in their history where their patterns didn't replicate exactly as you'd expect in a stable species and sometimes a female fish will throw out fry with a gene that means they present as orange blotch, sometimes its quite subtle but other times its really unexpected like that one you shared above. If you get an OB male from that female I think they can then start to pass it on if you breed from them as well but not guaranteed.

Wills

Awesome and that sounds pretty cool with the Mbuna and Peacock difference. Do you have a specific website or book you consider the holy grail of Malawi Cichlids and/or African Cichlids in general from where you have obtained your knowledge?

 

[Wills]

Awesome and that sounds pretty cool with the Mbuna and Peacock difference. Do you have a specific website or book you consider the holy grail of Malawi Cichlids and/or African Cichlids in general from where you have obtained your knowledge?

No in all honesty its really hard to find good advice on Malawi for some reason, handful of people on YouTube, Cichlid Forum has some really good articles and profiles - someone there told me the 4 slots advice and avoid any similarities

Going to take a bit of time to get your head fully round it I don't 100% get it yet but what I've said above is what I'm planning to do The Malawi side of the hobby is pretty murky as so many people keep them in questionable set ups and define them as 'fine' so my approach is to try and group them in as natural groups as possible and figure out as many caveats that should ensure the most success - eg not mixing similar looking fish, good gender ratios and having some kind of fry control plan.

 

[JaysTank]

No in all honesty its really hard to find good advice on Malawi for some reason, handful of people on YouTube, Cichlid Forum has some really good articles and profiles - someone there told me the 4 slots advice and avoid any similarities

Going to take a bit of time to get your head fully round it I don't 100% get it yet but what I've said above is what I'm planning to do The Malawi side of the hobby is pretty murky as so many people keep them in questionable set ups and define them as 'fine' so my approach is to try and group them in as natural groups as possible and figure out as many caveats that should ensure the most success - eg not mixing similar looking fish, good gender ratios and having some kind of fry control plan.

Do you know this site. Check out their interactive map specifically, it's super awesome. Click the areas in the right side column, and then the link in the photo that opens of said area. Then you'll get to a section with great photos of the cichlids from that specific area: http://malawi.si/index.html

 

[Wills]

Do you know this site. Check out their interactive map specifically, it's super awesome. Click the areas in the right side column, and then the link in the photo that opens of said area. Then you'll get to a section with great photos of the cichlids from that specific area: http://malawi.si/index.html

Yes I like that one but I kept finding beautiful yet obscure fish in the hobby, there are so many that just dont come into the hobby, so sometimes you see something really cool on that site and then realise not in the hobby or... one of the most aggressive in the hobby that generally are just best to avoid like Kenyi or Auratus.

This is a really good youtube channel for me - https://www.youtube.com/@hagebycikliden569 He has one from a few months ago called Cichlids from sandy habitats, there is a clip part way through of that one with Acei Ngaras in a huge group, first time I saw it I literally gasped.

 

[Wills]

Ah man talking to you has scuppered my plans... I thought I wanted a single species tank of Msobo Magunga but then thought I'll do 3 groups of them and 1 group of Socolofi, then I watched the white fin acei video and now I want them but 3 species wont work and now I need a 4th! My plan was those three plus Maingaino or White Labs (probably white labs after you pointed out them vs acei ngara would look amazing!)

 

[JaysTank]

Ah man talking to you has scuppered my plans... I thought I wanted a single species tank of Msobo Magunga but then thought I'll do 3 groups of them and 1 group of Socolofi, then I watched the white fin acei video and now I want them but 3 species wont work and now I need a 4th! My plan was those three plus Maingaino or White Labs (probably white labs after you pointed out them vs acei ngara would look amazing!)

Haha in the same boat you and I then.. and I just realized that the youtube channel you linked to is in Sweden, not too far away from me in Copenhagen (450km/280miles), and he has a huge list of cichlids in stock: https://hagebycikliden.se/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/stocklist_hemsida_15_06.pdf

 

[Wills]

Haha in the same boat you and I then.. and I just realized that the youtube channel you linked to is in Sweden, not too far away from me in Copenhagen (450km/280miles), and he has a huge list of cichlids in stock: https://hagebycikliden.se/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/stocklist_hemsida_15_06.pdf

OMG I am so jealous!!! Definitely use that guy if you can - I hadn't even made the connection...

I like that 280 miles isnt 'too far' for you its twice the width of the UK! But I reckon definitely worth the trip.