Help For A Novice

alnwick54

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Location
Durham
Hi All,
Brand new virgin fish keeper who has discovered after reding some other postings I have done this all wrong. I took advice from a specialist pet shop, bought a 35L tank to start and set it off with the bacteria added 1 week ago. They said I could put 5 neons in today as they are easy to keep. I have done that and they have been in since this morning just they are all at the surface constantly so I pressume they are stressed poor things, I have checked the water and all the readings are spot on to the info given by the manufacturer so I pressume I will just have to sit this out and hope they are all alive tomorrow... or is this ok?? Blimey its not as easy as it looks, think I could be an over-protective mother!!
Thanks
ps they have been fed and your right I really don't know what I am doing, but willing to learn...
 
i there and welcome to the forum and to fishkeeping.

you're certainly in at the deep end but don't panic, we get people in this situation every day on this forum so you are not alone. we can't promise you all your fish will make it but we will give you all the help support and advice possible to give them the best possible chance

could you give us a bit more information on your set up, try to answer the questions as thoroughly as possible, sometimes something you may think of as a minute irrelevant detail can actually make all the difference for your fish so just tell us everything, we don't mind wading through long posts!

1 - what 'bacteria' did you add to the tank, how did you add it (just type out the dosage instructions for your tank if you followed them to the letter)
2 - what sort of test kit are you using, is it liquids or paper strips?
3 - what readings are you getting for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (actual numbers please not just 'fine')?
4 - can you also test a sample of your tap water and let us know the readings for that?
5 - how did you acclimitise the fish to the new tank?
6 - what make/model of equipment (particularly filter) do you have on the tank?

OK that will get us started, there may be more questions later!

You have correctly interpreted the hovering at the surface of the water as a sypmtom of stress, this could be one of a few things, the tank may not be cycled so you may have poor water quality, there may not be enough oxygen in the water so they are gasping at the surface for air. the other thing to consider is that neons are actually quite a delicate little fish, not very hardy at all so they are easily stressed when they are acclimitised to new tanks.

The first thing I advise you to do is to make sure there are ripples or little waves on the surface of the water so we can rule out a lack of oxygen, just move your filter so that the output breaks the surface of the water and makes a little splash. Secondly you need to read the link in my sig 'whats cycling' which explains the whole process of cycling to you and what all the water test results mean and so on. Have a read of that and then post back with answers to the questions above and feel free to ask us anything you like.
 
Hi and thank you for this,
I used a tetra tank in a kit form with the water safe to add and bought a 100watt heater hoping it would last in the long term, although the shop recommended a 50 watt. The filter is a easy crystal 250 and it makes a sort of waterfall and quite a lot of surface ripple, I was thinking of getting one of those bubble makers you see to add as well as I like the look in the tank, would this help? The temperature is 26 degrees now.

I used tetra aqua bactozym capsules added inbetween the two filters inside the water filter as instructed. It says add 2 capsules per 100 litre tank and repeat after 7 days. My tank is 35 L and they told me to add 2 at the shop and let it run for a week then all would be well. It was cloudy for 3 days as it said on the box but cleared up.

My test strips are the 5 in one type made by API and the original readin was:
GH60, KH80, PH6.5, NO2 0.5 and NO3 20 which the info leaflet said was within peramiters for community tanks.

My tap water is:
GH30, KH20, PH6.0, NO2 0, NO3 0 or perhaps 10 very faint.

The shop told me to add half a cup of my water to the fish when I got back (about 5 min drive) and let the fish float in the bag for 45 mins before release, which I did. Only I turned off the lights after reading some of the forum comments, they never told me this but I could see the fish were not right poor things...

I have retested the water now the shop water was added and it is now:
GH180, KH20, PH6.5, NO2 3, NO3 40
which seems to be quite an increadable difference.

I have been to collect my daughter at school and the fish are swimming now only one is still on the surface.

A friend at school has a large tank of cold goldfish and said if it helps I could take an amount of her water... would this help?? She wanted me to go straight away but I made excuses and thought I had better check. Blimey it's not as easy as I thought but hopefully we can get through this and laugh about it in years to come!!
 
yeah unfortunately the only difficult bit of fishkeeping really is getting it started up properly, once you're off the ground it's plain sailing so don't panic if this all sounds hideously complicated.

what the fish shops don't bother to tell you is that the filter they have sold you is basically just hardware, it's like a computer without windows installed on it..... not a lot of good to most people! What you need to do is 'install' two species of bacteria on the filter media. Basically the fish produce ammonia as their waste, you need the first species of bacteria which we'll refer to as 'A-Bacs' to consume all that ammonia and convert it into nitrite, unfortunately the nitrite is also toxic to fish so you need a second bacteria species called the 'N-Bacs' which will convert the nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate is only toxic in massively high doses so you just remove this with weekly water changes.

We advise people to go through a process called fishless cycling, this basically simulates fish being in the tank by adding ammonia to it over a few weeks, the bacteria colonies that you need will grow up and then when you come to add fish the bacteria are all there for you to deal with the fishes waste so the water is safe.

The bacteria product you have been sold is trying to miss out this step by just conaining a load of the bacteria which you can dump into your tanka dn then just add fish, nice little idea. It's just a shame that they don't work! There's very little regulation of aquarium products so unfortunately they do not all do what they claim to do which (as you can imagine) is very frustrating for us hobbyists. You think you've done everything right and then you're thrown into this dodgy situation.

Now you're friend is very close to the solution for you, as her tank has been running for months/years it will almost certainly have nice strong colonies of both these bacteria species living in the filter media. So if you can get a chunk of sponge from her filter and pop it into yours then you'll bring over a nice colony of bacteria and the water quality will be fixed in hopeful;ly a few days rather than aking several weeks as you would expect if you didn't get the media from her filter. She's just made a common misconception that the bacteria are in the water, they're not a free-swimming species they cling onto surfaces so while there emay be a minimal amount in the water it won't make any difference to move it to your tank, but in her filter in the sponges or whatever else she's got in there she'll have loads and loads of lovely bacteria which you can move to your tank.

Without a shadow of a doubt this is your best course of action, for 6 neons you won't need that much media, take no more than one third of the total that she has, it's polite in these circumstances to buy some new media to replace her's with. bag it up in a sealed bag or tupperware with water from her fish tank (not tap water) and get it into your filter within 24hrs (although quicker is better) making sure that it never dries out.

Now - onto the other stuff, don't worry about the bubble curtain, your make of filter provides plenty of oxygen, if you like the look of them then by all means get one but there's no practical need to, it won't change things.

What you do need to get now is a new test kit, the test strips are notoriously unreliable as you can see from the difference between your readings. If you look for the API FreshWater master Test Kit this contains everything you need. The fish shop may sell it or alternatively it's always available on ebay for around £20.

In the mean time we have no idea what your water readings actually are, so it's safest to assume the worst, if you can do a large water change every day with fresh dechlorinated tap water then this will hopefully keep the water clean until you get a test kit and the mature media sorted from your friend and we can then start to work out what's really going on.

Right I think that's enough info to bombard you with at one time, so hit me back with any more questions.
 
yeah unfortunately the only difficult bit of fishkeeping really is getting it started up properly, once you're off the ground it's plain sailing so don't panic if this all sounds hideously complicated.

what the fish shops don't bother to tell you is that the filter they have sold you is basically just hardware, it's like a computer without windows installed on it..... not a lot of good to most people! What you need to do is 'install' two species of bacteria on the filter media. Basically the fish produce ammonia as their waste, you need the first species of bacteria which we'll refer to as 'A-Bacs' to consume all that ammonia and convert it into nitrite, unfortunately the nitrite is also toxic to fish so you need a second bacteria species called the 'N-Bacs' which will convert the nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate is only toxic in massively high doses so you just remove this with weekly water changes.

We advise people to go through a process called fishless cycling, this basically simulates fish being in the tank by adding ammonia to it over a few weeks, the bacteria colonies that you need will grow up and then when you come to add fish the bacteria are all there for you to deal with the fishes waste so the water is safe.

The bacteria product you have been sold is trying to miss out this step by just conaining a load of the bacteria which you can dump into your tanka dn then just add fish, nice little idea. It's just a shame that they don't work! There's very little regulation of aquarium products so unfortunately they do not all do what they claim to do which (as you can imagine) is very frustrating for us hobbyists. You think you've done everything right and then you're thrown into this dodgy situation.

Now you're friend is very close to the solution for you, as her tank has been running for months/years it will almost certainly have nice strong colonies of both these bacteria species living in the filter media. So if you can get a chunk of sponge from her filter and pop it into yours then you'll bring over a nice colony of bacteria and the water quality will be fixed in hopeful;ly a few days rather than aking several weeks as you would expect if you didn't get the media from her filter. She's just made a common misconception that the bacteria are in the water, they're not a free-swimming species they cling onto surfaces so while there emay be a minimal amount in the water it won't make any difference to move it to your tank, but in her filter in the sponges or whatever else she's got in there she'll have loads and loads of lovely bacteria which you can move to your tank.

Without a shadow of a doubt this is your best course of action, for 6 neons you won't need that much media, take no more than one third of the total that she has, it's polite in these circumstances to buy some new media to replace her's with. bag it up in a sealed bag or tupperware with water from her fish tank (not tap water) and get it into your filter within 24hrs (although quicker is better) making sure that it never dries out.

Now - onto the other stuff, don't worry about the bubble curtain, your make of filter provides plenty of oxygen, if you like the look of them then by all means get one but there's no practical need to, it won't change things.

What you do need to get now is a new test kit, the test strips are notoriously unreliable as you can see from the difference between your readings. If you look for the API FreshWater master Test Kit this contains everything you need. The fish shop may sell it or alternatively it's always available on ebay for around £20.

In the mean time we have no idea what your water readings actually are, so it's safest to assume the worst, if you can do a large water change every day with fresh dechlorinated tap water then this will hopefully keep the water clean until you get a test kit and the mature media sorted from your friend and we can then start to work out what's really going on.

Right I think that's enough info to bombard you with at one time, so hit me back with any more questions.

I agree the test strips are usless get a master kit and start conducting tests and once your started you'll be fine in the early days there's a lot of 10% water changes and testing to be done but you'll get there keep us posted on your progress !
 
yeah unfortunately the only difficult bit of fishkeeping really is getting it started up properly, once you're off the ground it's plain sailing so don't panic if this all sounds hideously complicated.

what the fish shops don't bother to tell you is that the filter they have sold you is basically just hardware, it's like a computer without windows installed on it..... not a lot of good to most people! What you need to do is 'install' two species of bacteria on the filter media. Basically the fish produce ammonia as their waste, you need the first species of bacteria which we'll refer to as 'A-Bacs' to consume all that ammonia and convert it into nitrite, unfortunately the nitrite is also toxic to fish so you need a second bacteria species called the 'N-Bacs' which will convert the nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate is only toxic in massively high doses so you just remove this with weekly water changes.

We advise people to go through a process called fishless cycling, this basically simulates fish being in the tank by adding ammonia to it over a few weeks, the bacteria colonies that you need will grow up and then when you come to add fish the bacteria are all there for you to deal with the fishes waste so the water is safe.

The bacteria product you have been sold is trying to miss out this step by just conaining a load of the bacteria which you can dump into your tanka dn then just add fish, nice little idea. It's just a shame that they don't work! There's very little regulation of aquarium products so unfortunately they do not all do what they claim to do which (as you can imagine) is very frustrating for us hobbyists. You think you've done everything right and then you're thrown into this dodgy situation.

Now you're friend is very close to the solution for you, as her tank has been running for months/years it will almost certainly have nice strong colonies of both these bacteria species living in the filter media. So if you can get a chunk of sponge from her filter and pop it into yours then you'll bring over a nice colony of bacteria and the water quality will be fixed in hopeful;ly a few days rather than aking several weeks as you would expect if you didn't get the media from her filter. She's just made a common misconception that the bacteria are in the water, they're not a free-swimming species they cling onto surfaces so while there emay be a minimal amount in the water it won't make any difference to move it to your tank, but in her filter in the sponges or whatever else she's got in there she'll have loads and loads of lovely bacteria which you can move to your tank.

Without a shadow of a doubt this is your best course of action, for 6 neons you won't need that much media, take no more than one third of the total that she has, it's polite in these circumstances to buy some new media to replace her's with. bag it up in a sealed bag or tupperware with water from her fish tank (not tap water) and get it into your filter within 24hrs (although quicker is better) making sure that it never dries out.

Now - onto the other stuff, don't worry about the bubble curtain, your make of filter provides plenty of oxygen, if you like the look of them then by all means get one but there's no practical need to, it won't change things.

What you do need to get now is a new test kit, the test strips are notoriously unreliable as you can see from the difference between your readings. If you look for the API FreshWater master Test Kit this contains everything you need. The fish shop may sell it or alternatively it's always available on ebay for around £20.

In the mean time we have no idea what your water readings actually are, so it's safest to assume the worst, if you can do a large water change every day with fresh dechlorinated tap water then this will hopefully keep the water clean until you get a test kit and the mature media sorted from your friend and we can then start to work out what's really going on.

Right I think that's enough info to bombard you with at one time, so hit me back with any more questions.
 
Wow... I can't believe this, feel like I have been ripped off slightly by this shop and I wouldn't care they are a aquatic only specialist with a great website! I will do as you say tonight and keep you posted, the tank is 4 years old so should be full of goodies!! Hopefully if I go after the girls are in bed there may be a chance for my fish... I wouldn,t care we are in no rush but want everything to be right so why the need for bad advice... it's so unneccessary.
 
Just to say: You've got the Master up there in MW's two posts. (I've checked over her typing and logic up there and those paragraphs are good as gold, lol)

Agree that your first action will be to give those neons a fresh exchange of tap water (nice 9 gallon tank, so about 5 gallons will be removed and fresh put back in).. the way you do this is to siphon (hopefully you've got one of those clear hoses, otherwise you'll have to dip with a pitcher.) In future you'll learn about gravel cleaning but for now it'll be fine to just get your change of water going. Save some of the water you take out so you can compare its temperature with your hand over at your sink and adjust the feel of the now water you're going to put back in. You'll need "conditioner" (this is the bottled chemical they've no doubt sent you home with (for heaven's sake we hope so!) that will remove chlorine if that's what your town does, or chloramines, which is a different thing other towns do, but the conditioners sold these days can handle either type of treatment. Just go by the bottle intstructions.)

Then the next most important thing is the good test kit! Good luck!

~~waterdrop~~
 
yup, us 'serious fishkeepers' (hate that term!) have a definate love/hate relationship with fish shops. We need them to support the hobby that we love, but we hate some of the advice and impact they have on people who just want a normal tank withotu loads of hassle.

if you get a good one then you'll be well away, brilliant advice on tap, but if you get a dodgy one it'll be staffed by 13 yr olds who know nothing about fish and are under pressure from the owners to make sales. Ultimately all fish shops are businesses and they have to make a proft, sadly for them to tell you all about fishless cycling, sell you a decent test kit nad one lot of fish in a few weeks doesn't make a lot of money. selling you some fish, then replacements when they die, all sorts of miracle cures and so on makes more money. Sad but true.

I just try to remember that anyone working in a fish shop is probably on minimum wage, they're not going to be a marine biologist or have an encyclopedic knowledge of all fish species and problems. There's a lot of really passionate intelligent knowledgeable people who come on this forum who can earn considerably more and have a much better life doing a wide variety of jobs which are not in the fish trade, if it was easy to make a good living doing it there would be no problem.

Just think, you wouldn't ask the clerk at a McDonalds drive thru for nutritional advice, take what the fish shop say's with a pinch of salt!!

But you know, it's not all bad news, you're in the rght place now to find out about this great hobby, you can pick up some mature media tonight which has about an 80% chance of totally sorting out the water and you'll ave no more problemds. You just need to do a few water changes while you wait for a proper test kit to arrive and hopefully then you'll have a nice easy time with your fish.

In the mean time just read read read, there's loads of excellent topics on this forum for the novice fishkeeper so dig around and we'll get you sorted no problems.

can totall understand why you feel cheated though,.
 
Just to give you all an update... and thanks for the support everyone!! My fab mate has given me a whole sponge from her fluval 3 plus as she had loads of spares. Its about 8" x 4" so for now to make the most of the goodies I have removed the filter I am supposed to replace monthly in my filter and wrapped the whole sponge around my permenant filter so fingers crossed... it's a bit stinky but I guess that's the idea!! I feel sooooo much happier now and have just ordered a testing kit, I feel like we are on the right track and the good news is the girls (or mayby boys) are hanging on in there and all zipping around exploring their new home and they look fab!! I am a very happy mummy xx
 
good it all sounds as if your on the right track.
The 'starting' up of a tank is always the hardest, you can do everything by the book but still loose fish, the thing is - the more /longer you keep fish tjhe easier it becomes to see if anything is wrong, just remember to keep testing water and keep doing water changes,-

HEALTHY WATER=HEALTHY FISH.

hope you enjoy the hobby (some might not call it that though, more a kind of new life!!!!) or obsession!!!
 
excellent, great news. hopefully a good chunk of lovely manky gungy sponge from your friends filter will have more than enough bacteria for 6 little neons.

with regards to the different types of media, no immediate rush but at some point over the next week or so have a look in the beginners resource centre at the top of this forum for a topic called 'know your filter media' by Neale Monks, it will help you understand what all the different bits do, how to look after them and when or if they need replacing.

another quick note on the bacteria is to remember that cycling is a supply and demand type thing, after a few days in your tank the bacteria will die back to the point where there are just enough to handle the waste from the fish in there, if you add too many fish too quickly then you don't have enough bacteria nad hte water can get messed up again. again not an immediate concern, just don't go thinking you've got all the bacteria now so you can throw in 50 fish next week as you'll be back to square one! So just take a few weeks to learn about maintenance and all the basics and in a few weeks pop back and have another conversation with us about stocking before you go out and buy anything.

let us know what the test results are when you get them. :good:
 
Well the girls are still here today and enjoyed breakfast, they seem fine and are zipping around still. I have done the water change and hopefully all will be well, the water did have a sort of film on this morning but most of that is off now after the change. I was thinking of getting another fish around the end of January if you all think that would be ok.

ps. I think I am in love with fluffy up there he is truly stunning!!
 
that sounds like a reasonable target, when you've got the test kit through and assuming your readings are fine from now and until then then the end of Jan is a suitable target.

you are fairly limited with fish choices because it's quite a small tank so choose carefully but there are definately some nice options.

have a look through the pinned topic about suitable stocking lists for a 10 gal tank for some inspiration, alternatively go down to your fish shop without your purse and write down the names of everything that you like the look of, come back and post them up here and we can start working out what your choices would be from that list. Your looking at nothing that gets over 2" long.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top