Hello And Help

[davekelly]

hello everyone,

just got a 30l tank set up with 2 fish in for a week.(yes i know its small but i live in a flat) my aim is to have 4-6 neons and 4-6 head and tail lights.
so i have started the cycle useing 2 head and tail light tetras. one is biggish one is smallish. (male and female i think due to one of them having a larger belly) the smaller one always seems to be hiding, then i noticed why. the bigger one seems to be fin nipping the little one who now has a bit of his tail missing.it still eats when i distract the big one. but shoots straight off when the other one comes towards it.

what can i do feel so sorry for it? i have put a mirror next too the tank to confuse it into thinking there are 4 fish, which sort of works.....anything else like adding another fish head/tail or will this effect my cycle too much.


also, i know tetras like to be in 6 or more, is my tank too small for 12 fish, if so would the fish be ok in a group of 4 each?

ps did a test and its all still at 0.

Hope someone can help my little fishy

thanks

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, welcome to the forum.

What you're observing is a perfect example of what the "minimum shoal size" guideline (minimum 6 or so head and taillight tetras) is all about. These types of tetras (both H&Ts and Neons) are both the very types that will be stressed and attack each other more if the shoal size drops below the minimum.

And of course you've not gone to shoal size because of the "fish-in" cycling, which, unfortunately is another perfect example of why "fishless" cycling is superior and "fish-in" cycling is, in my opinion, something one does usually as a mistake.

Now the good news is that we're only talking about two small H&Ts here, and there's a very good possibility the local fish shop where you got them would "hold" them for you (or even "sell them to you again" (hey, its not much money we're talking here!) while you get your filter prepared and truly ready for handling fish. Another possibility would be a friend or acquaintance with a tank who would "hold" or take them.

Have you read our pinned threads about the Nitrogen Cycle and the types of cycling? There are some good ones in the Beginners Resource Center - have a read and give us some more questions.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[davekelly]

hi there and thanks for your reply,

looking back the fishless cycle did seem the best way but i needed bits from other tanks, gravel etc and i dont know anyone with tropical fish

thats why i thought 2 little small fish in a tank that size should start the cycle and without too much stress to the little fishies. could i add another one in now or would that put too much pressure on the fish when the amonia spike hits?

also is 6 head/tail and 6 neons too much for a 30l tank without them getting stressed?

i'll have another read of that stuff.

cheers for your help

 

[OldMan47]

You do not need anything from another tank to do a fishless cycle. What you need is a proper test kit, some clear ammonia and some patience. The most important ingredient is the patience. Too often we end up answering a lot of people's problems that have resulted from trying to rush things. Media from an established tank will speed things up but is not really needed. A typical cycle will take about a month to 6 weeks whether you do it with fish in the tank and daily water changes or do it fishless and kick back with your feet up waiting for the tests to show some progress. There are links to both methods in my signature area.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, I think you've hit it precisely: The difficulty is that not having all the info you have now you made the tank size and inhabitant decision and 30L/8G means final stocking of 8 inches of fish body, which you would hit with 4 of each of those species.

The bits that you read about needing things from other aquariums I would guess might have been "mature media" from someone else's filter, which is often recommended to help "seed" the new filter and speed up its cycle.

Although its true that that is the one fairly reliable way to speed up the process, its not true that its necessary. All that's necessary (other than a normal operating tank and dechlor) is a bottle of pure household cleaning ammonia. The ammonia serves to feed the growing bacterial colonies, rather than needing the waste of sacrifice fish.

I still feel the ideal change of plan for you is to convince (I always like trying the friendly but firm approach) your local shop to take back the two small fish and then fishless cycle the tank. Its uncomfortable and they will no doubt resist, but if you are persistent, most report it working out.

If it doesn't work out then we'll look to the members for ideas on lowering the aggressiveness between these two tetras (if possible) and then proceed to try and help you with the best techniques possible for keeping them alive during a fish-in cycling situation. Have you got a liquid-based master test kit?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[davekelly]

cheers for your advice again,

dam sould hav done a fishless cycle lol. when people say 1 inch of fish per gallon, dos that mean 1 square inch? beause these fish arnt going to end up going to be 1 square inch in total are they? but would they all be happy 4 of each, rather they be happy than over crowed.

yeah i have got a liquid test kit just done another test and it reads 0 again.

since i put the mirror there the little one has come out of hiding and the bigger one doesnt go for it as much.

it it too soon to put another one in, maybe another friend might help?

 

[OldMan47]

When we advise new fish keepers to start with only 1 inch of fish per gallon, it is one inch of length not counting the tail. You don't count the tail or something like a betta would give you a bad estimate where half his length is his tail. The relationship is also only good for small fish less than 2 1/2 or 3 inches in length and it refers to their adult size, not the common size you will see at the fish shop.
After you have an established tank and have become proficient at caring for your fish you can usually get away with a heavier stocking but not the first few months.