Heaters and winter...

[julielynn47]

This is just one of "thought provoking" threads.
First let me say that I do have a heater in my 55, in my new 10, and I have one for the 75 that I am sitting up.

What I am wondering is if anyone else has them, but actually do not seem to need them much? What I mean is, my tank water pretty much stays the ambient temperature of the house itself. I have central heating/air, so the same temp is pretty much all through the house with little variance. The heater really only runs if the house gets cooler than usual, which is not very often. I usually sit the thermostat of the house unit, in the winter, on 70 to 73. Unless I pull it down so the heater does not run so much at night, the tank temperature stays the same as the air around it. Roughly a little warmer actually, which makes no sense, the tank stays between 74 and 77. I think this is due to the lights warming the water.

I have found the need for a heater, at least for me, is minimal and based on how warm I keep the house.

In the spring I take the heater out of the tank. I have absolutely no need for it at all. Spring through at least mid November. Living in south Arkansas, no matter how cool I get the house, the tank hovers around 82 and perhaps even warmer than that at times. Nothing I can do about it...it gets HOT in south Arkansas.

So anyway, I was wondering do any of you experience a similar situation?

 

[Toney]

I don't like to run the heater at night, I always turn it down below 60 before going to bed.

I've got heaters.

 

[julielynn47]

I do that also, which is why my tanks have heaters. Other than that my tanks don't even need heaters

 

[AbbeysDad]

I have two 200w heaters on my 60g and maintain a steady temperature of 77-78F.
Unless you have cold water fish like goldfish, most tropical's do better at temps around 76-78F.

 

[MarchHare]

I've always had heaters in my small tanks, 10 to 5 gallons. Even when I lived in Florida.
Ambient temps in my S.C home are generally 77f summer, 70f winter.
I feel that my body (old as it is) can tolerate temperature swings better than my small critters.
Like to think of it as insurance.
In that vein I try to get the best heater available.
March...

 

[FroFro]

I live in arizona and even though we keep the thermostat set to 75 at night it can still get much cooler. I've caught my heaters flashing on 2-4 times before I go to bed for a little bit before turning off to do a slight temperature adjustment. I also unplug their light at night so they have a "night" period for my nocturnal fish. The heater only turns on when the water isn't at temperature, so it shouldn't be too much of an electricity eater for you especially if you have a steadyish temp. I feel the heaters are more for fish comfort than anything. How would you like it if your temperature changed half a dozen times at night by 1-2 degrees? If I were a fish I think I would be annoyed

 

[StevenF]

You might be interested in this heater calculator I found. You enter the size of the tank, The type Acrylic or glass the desired water temperate and a couple of other questions and it will calculate the heater size you need. many people would be surprised at the results:http://www.kernsanalysis.com/CalcMi...PORT=FELT&DELTAT=15&TEMPUNIT=F&.submit=Submit

Another thing you can do is to is to connect a watt meter to your heater and monitor the heaters power consumption. I did that and found I only needed about 8 watts to keep a 5 gallon tank heated. The room is heater to 70 while I am awake but the heater is off when I am at work or set to 60 when I am asleep.

 

[Byron]

Before I get to the heat issue and fish, I will suggest that the linked chart is fine to calculate the amount of energy (watts) you might require to heat the water, but this cannot be used to calculate the heater itself. Just wanted to point that out.

Temperature is very significant to fish, much more than for humans. As everyone knows, fish are cold blooded, so they must function at the temperature determined by the water temperature. My following comments are with tropical fish species in mind, not goldfish and other cold water species.

Temperature drives metabolic processes, so it is very important. Water has a high specific heat capacity, which means that temperature changes are resisted by the water and thus are very slow to occur. It takes longer for water than air to cool, but conversely it will take longer for water to warm up again. This is why the heat wave temperatures in the summer are usually manageable for aquarium fish, provided it cools down at night.

Most of us probably have a set temperature and it is constant, 24/7. My tanks run at 76-77F (except the Chocolate Gourami which are warmer, 79-80F). For most species there is nothing wrong with having this vary in a 24-hour period, from cooler during darkness and warmer during daylight (meaning when the tank lights are on). These temperatures can vary by a few degrees, provided it is gradual and not excessive. A failed heater that allows a tank to drop from say 75F to 60-65F overnight will almost inevitably cause an outbreak of ich. This is solely due to the stress the temperature causes the fish, which demonstrates the importance of a regulated temperature which as I say can include a variance night to day.

In most tanks, there will be a temperature variance between the upper and lower levels. Every time I put my hand in during water changes down to the substrate level I am amazed at the noticeable difference in temperature. This of course is exactly how it is in nature.

And there is a difference between day and night temperatures, though it is not anywhere as large as some will suggest. The air temperature may change though usually this is not very great; but even when this occurs by up to 15 C/27F, the water will only change by a few degrees, 3 to 4 C or 5 to 7 F if that. And another misconception is that tropical water temperatures have considerable fluctuations from season to season; they do not, at least not to any significant degree. Seasonal changes in temperature occur slowly over months. Rain does not cool the watercourses very much, since the heat from the air and the substrate also factor in.

If the ambient room temperature can be maintained at what the fish require, it is possible to leave out the individual tank heaters. But this means a day temperature in the mid to high 70's, and a night cooling to no less than around 70F. If the house is down to 60 at night, the tanks will be chilled too much.

On heaters, remember that they are intended to heat the tanks up to around 10 degrees from the ambient room temperature, and if the room is cooler there is more chance the heater will fail. The higher wattage heaters also tend to be more reliable, in my experience; I have had three or four 50w heaters fail, but never the 100-200w heaters which I have been using (some of them) since 1996. I keep the fish room no cooler than 70F year round, so even if a heater should fail, I am not going to see any resulting problems.

Byron.

 

[julielynn47]

I just want to stress here that I never mentioned a thing about being worried about the electricity needed to run an aquarium heater, and I do run heaters in the winter. LOL


I have a little heater in my 10 gallon and it keeps the water at 78 degrees. It is not adjustable. I am not sure I like that. But it is thermostatically controled, I believe it is anyway. I am going to get the papers out on it and see. But it is so far keeping it at a steady 78.

I have a 125 watt in my 55 gallon and it is keeping the water at the same 78. But I am kinda wondering if that is not a little too warm. But everything I read says between 76 and 80. So I guess it is okay.

 

[Byron]

I just want to stress here that I never mentioned a thing about being worried about the electricity needed to run an aquarium heater, and I do run heaters in the winter. LOL


I have a little heater in my 10 gallon and it keeps the water at 78 degrees. It is not adjustable. I am not sure I like that. But it is thermostatically controled, I believe it is anyway. I am going to get the papers out on it and see. But it is so far keeping it at a steady 78.

I have a 125 watt in my 55 gallon and it is keeping the water at the same 78. But I am kinda wondering if that is not a little too warm. But everything I read says between 76 and 80. So I guess it is okay.

The difference between 76 and 80 is, for fish, considerable, and I would venture to say that there are very few species that would be able to be at their best at different temperatures within such a range. In other words, a species that would be suited to a temperature of 76-77F (example, most cory species) is not very likely to manage as well at 80F, and conversely. Fish simply do not have such wide preferences, with a few exceptions. It would help to know the fish species in suggesting a preferred temperature. In my previous post in this thread I referenced the rather narrow fluctuations in natural habitats, diurnally and seasonally, and a fish's metabolism is geared to its habitat conditions including temperature.

One can find a temperature range for most fish (make sure it is a reliable source, there was a discussion in another thread recently about widely-variable temperature ranges from different sources) and with a few exceptions it is best to stay mid-range on the lower side. Such ranges are intended as the maximum "safe" limits, but do not normally mean the fish can be permanently at either extreme of the range. The fish's metabolism is temperature driven, and the warmer the water, the more energy it takes from the fish for each physiological process. As one example, it takes more energy to eat in warmer water (this is why we advise to feed sparingly if at all in heat waves), and the rate of respiration will increase the warmer the water. Also, oxygen decreases the warmer the water, which makes respiration harder still. And all of this only needs a small fluctuation to make a considerable difference to the fish.

Second point is that of the community aquarium containing more than one fish species. One has to be careful when selecting community fish that one keeps their temperature needs in mind. You simply cannot combine fish species with widely-differing temperature preferences and expect them to be in the best health. If the temperature is too low or too high, as I mentioned above the metabolism is affected, and this weakens the fish so that other issues may occur, issues that would otherwise be averted by the fish. All of this causes stress, and stress is the direct cause of 95% of all fish disease, so it is wise to reduce stress as much as we can.

Freshwater fish have evolved over thousands of years to function best in a very specific environment. Optimum health will only be possible if those conditions are provided for, and temperature is a significant part of this.

Byron.

 

[julielynn47]

So a better temp is 76? When I said 76 to 80 I didn't mean to imply that the water fluctuated daily from 76 to 80. What I meant was, since I put the heater in the tank for the winter, the water has stayed at 78 around the clock.

Lots of differing opinions, very confusing, but that is what this thread is all about.

Like I have stated before, in the summer months, even with the air con running in the house, the water temp stays in the low 80's in my tank. There have been summers that I have had to pretty much just turn the lights off for most of the day in an attempt to keep the temp lower. There are some things that we can only do our best with, even that does not seem enough. I have not lost any fish due to it, I have had algae blooms due it though.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Duing this summer I turned off the heater and have only recently turned it back on again as the nights get a little colder. The temperature generally varied between 24 Celsius and 27 without the heater with the lights warming the water during the day. Now the heater is in the temperature is a steady 26. All the time, with and without the heater, I didn't notice any change in fish behaviour so I do wonder how critical the temperature for any particular species is (within reasonable limits of course).

How do my pond fish cope? In hot weather the temp can make it to 28 Celsius and in the winter it can be barely above zero and yet they survive even though in winter they hardly eat at all.

 

[hobby5]

Some interesting reading:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/whaddaya-mean-too-hot/

Basically if your room temp never drops too low you don't need a heater. My tanks for the adult fish normally don't have heaters.

 

[Byron]

So a better temp is 76? When I said 76 to 80 I didn't mean to imply that the water fluctuated daily from 76 to 80. What I meant was, since I put the heater in the tank for the winter, the water has stayed at 78 around the clock.

Lots of differing opinions, very confusing, but that is what this thread is all about.

Like I have stated before, in the summer months, even with the air con running in the house, the water temp stays in the low 80's in my tank. There have been summers that I have had to pretty much just turn the lights off for most of the day in an attempt to keep the temp lower. There are some things that we can only do our best with, even that does not seem enough. I have not lost any fish due to it, I have had algae blooms due it though.

As I usually do, I was explaining several aspects of the topic in an attempt to include the various members' posts and put some semblance of logic and order to it. You last comment for example was "everything I read says between 76 and 80," and I tried to explain the pitfalls of this wide range as it does not mean the tank should be 76 or 80 or whatever else.

As for the temp at 78F, this depends upon the species. Hence my comments about community tanks and different species. If I knew what species are in your 78F tank, I could probably suggest this or that...or it may be fine. But as I also noted, cooler rather than warmer is generally healthier. There again are always exceptions.

The article that hobby5 linked is worth reading. However, one can't read into it what isn't there. But Rudi's data does demonstrate what I said earlier about sudden versus gradual changes. And he also is suggesting cooler rather than warmer as I have been.

Byron.

 

[julielynn47]

That is a very interesting article. And I know a lot of people won't agree with it, but that is kind of how my tank is. I use the heater, mostly Nov through Feb. I do have them in the tanks now. But I keep turning the thermostat down on the one in the 55 gallon because to me, it just seems a bit warm in there just with the tank lights.

I feel like there is not much I can do about how warm the water gets with the air in the room is warmer. But when the air in the room gets cooler that is when the heaters come into play. And be totally serious, I think the lower temps at the better temps. I have less algae growth and the fish honestly seem just fine.

I am glad I started this thread. I have heard ideas and opinions from a lot of different viewpoints. But if my tank stays between 73 and 78, with or without a heater, I feel fine with that. I see no problem with temperature fluctuations that are in the realm of normalcy, meaning that of course the tank will cool down at night after the lights go out and warm back up during the day when the lights are on. But when it gets cold, I will use the heaters to keep the fish warm of course.

The BBA is almost a thing of the past...thank goodness...my plants are green, healthy and growing better now than they ever have, and the fish seem very happy and I even have guppies living! And yes, that is something for me. I have never been able to keep a guppy alive, don't know why, just never had luck with them. I now have 4 and they are doing great.

I have learned a LOT since I joined this forum and I am sure I will learn a lot more.