Heater Failure And Its Freezing

cheers both
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ive just pulled out all the pictures that the bloke i got the tank off gave me, and have realised that he didnt take any from inside the wier, so chances are there maybe a bit that ive left off and ill have a look in the garage tommorow... though i genuinley dont remeber leaving anthing off... i would have asked :/

that pipe with the red tap on is really loose.. so im not messing about with it just now..i can just imaging the consequences :lol: need one of the boys to give it a good push up,and my arms are not long enough to reach all the way in and push
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i`ll go plumb center in the morning and see what i can get my hands on,and get one of the boys to tighten that pipe
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im gonna be lost without the constant downpour :lol:
shelagh xxx
 
Ah actually, I think you are right John and I might have confused things a bit. The tall pipe is probably the fail safe.

The bath analogy still works but literally as a bath works... IE the overflow is not designed to be the way to drain the water out the bath, but is just that... a fail safe.

Shelagh, if you can, take a picture top down ( I don't me show us your bra lol :p) to show us inside the weir. If there is no tee piece / tee piece with 90 degree section on that tall pipe, then its just like the diagram John drew. I hope they have put one in there as it would make it virtually silent.
 
yes ill get a pic in the morning-sorry just been in casuallty for 2.5 hours with my son,so apologise for the late reply

the tank has gone up to 26 now, and mostly its looking fine, mushrooms are still very sulky, but im sure they`ll be fine,as is the sulphur toady- one large zoa garden rock seems to have had it.. all gone white.. but im not doing anything tonight as it may well be fine in the morning

first im in the bath then you want my top down.. oh my word
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im pretty sure that part is not in there tho, but i do remember my son needed to stand on a chair and squeeze his arm the height of the wier to connect something, so we`ll see... and incidently he will very relieved if we can shut the noise up..as his bedroom is right above it and he moans about it.. of course i take no notice whatsoever
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thanks so much for getting me this far
goodnight
shelagh xxxx
 
Hope all is well with the offspring in the A+E!

I'm pretty certain that John had it spot on with his diagram. The pipe with the red valve on is the sump feed/weir height level adjuster. The tall pipe is just an overflow pipe in case something blocks the flow through the sump feed, causing the weir to fill up.

It won't be that hard to silence the tank. It all depends on the type of bulkhead that connects to the downpipe, as to what parts you are going to require. What you are aiming for is something resembling the picture in my earlier post, to come up from the bulkhead, with the tee/90 degree fitting maybe 1-2" below the height of the weir comb. That way you won't get a cascading sound from the water flowing into the weir.

If its a solvent weld fitting, then you'll need a length of the appropriate diameter pipe, probably 32mm but might be 28mm or 40mm (just measure the diameter of the red valve tube). You'll also need a tee section, a 90 degree elbow, and an end cap. I'd get a couple of end caps, because you have to drill a hole in it. If you manage to screw it up, then at least you'll have a spare lol. Also, get a couple of rolls of PTFE tape (white stuff used for plumbing fittings) and a tin of solvent weld (Black Swan is good).

Assembly is pretty straight forward. Personally, I would not solvent weld the pipe into the bulkhead. If at some point it needed cleaning, or something got stuck in it, you'll be up the proverbial creek without a paddle, as you'll be unable to remove it. For that, I would wrap the end with PTFE tap, so that it forms a nice snug push-fit. You can solvent weld the tee-piece onto the durso pipe and the elbow to the tee. The end cap you might be better off with just using PTFE for a nice tight fit. That way you can remove it if need be and insert a rod down to remove any blockage.

There is a chance that the bulkhead will be threaded. If so, just do as above, but solvent weld a threaded adapter to the bottom end of the durso. This may require a reducer too (see link for parts list). Again, if a blockage should ever occur, you can unscrew the standpipe from the bulkhead to access it. Just make sure that you can rotate the pipe with the tee/elbow/cap connected or PTFE that part together so that you can remove the inlet assembly (tee/elbow/cap) and then just rotate the pipe to unscrew. Another option would be instead of using the PTFE tape, to use a compression coupling on the pipe below the assembly instead, which you can unscrew to remove it, then twist the pipe to unscrew that. You have a few options available. Basically you want will silence the tank but also enable easy access for servicing if need be.

The key element in all this is the hole which you will have to drill into the end cap. I'd personally start at 3mm and work your way up in 1mm incriments. The idea is that as the water enters the tee piece and falls down the pipe, it will draw air in through the end cap hole. If there is insufficent air, the durso will go into full syphon and basically auto flush like a toilet until the weir drains below the level of the tee piece, syphon is broken and the weir fills up again. If this happens, remove the cap, increase the drill hole size and repeat the process. You don't have to worry about the weir overflowing as you have the fail safe pipe, that John pictured in his diagram (green one). We want to create the durso where the yellow pipe is, although make it about an inch or two below the weir comb height. In the unlikely event that your durso becomes blocked, you will be alerted to this fact by the noise you currently have from the tank, as the water will be flowing down the unsilenced green pipe :good:

Once the durso is functioning properly it will be virtually silent, just make sure that the valve in the sump cabinet is at full open position, as the durso will make it redundant. Its still worth keeping in there though, as it enables you isolate the weir section if need be. The only other issue you might have will be gulping/burping coming from the sump. This you can resolve by shortening the pipe with the red valve to about an inch above the water surface in the sump, then fitting a tee section to it, which should make it about level with the water surface. As my sump is getting a lot of fish poop collecting in it, I'm going to be fitting a 100 or 200 micron filter sock to my sump feed. Hopefully this will collect a decent amount of poop, which I'll empty once or twice a week, depending. If the 100 micron doesn't enable enough water to flow through it, then I'll go to the 200 and see how I get on.

So measure the pipework, shut the pump off and check the bulkhead type, then get down to plumb centre!
 
thanks for all that info AK :)
ill need to re-read it as im half asleep
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but i WILL sort it today.
have not slept yet.. well i cant can i.. still worrying about my little one and the tank, so got up to check both, temp in the tank wont get past 23 with 1 heater :/ everything apart from the bubble tip is sulking ( that seems to be very unusually awake early, it always hides in the dark but its out in its full glory at 4am
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ive turned on the other heater for now,so gonna need to sort that out ( the external did a fab job :/ ).

Re, the offspring.. yes he`s going to be ok, thanks .. was boucing on the sofa and got a fork impailed an inch into his heel
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like the nurse said " thats a new one" hes only 5 and i dont know if he was more in pain or scared.. but hes going to be sore this morning when he wakes up
and FYI no, i dont usually keep forks on the sofa
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.. just one of those horrible things :/

thanks again i`ll let you know when i get started and how im getting on :)

shelagh xxx
 
Ouch Shelagh, that really sounds painful. Poor lad, hope he's not too sore.

I've been reading this thread to reassure me that my own heater problems are really quite minor sounds like you've had bit of a nightmare!
 
he`s actually happier than i expected him to be, he`s had a huuuuge big plaster put on it ( he`s only got weeny feet
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and i know cos ive had them kicking me all night
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) so he`s feeling quite "proud" today - kids eh!
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tank is finally up to 27c with 2 heaters in there ( dosent look pretty but they are doing the job)

and i think ive worked out whats happend
yesterday morning the water level in the sump had dropped so low that the return pump was partially exposed ( ive had a busy fewdays
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), tho it was still dragging water thru it must have been struggling, and as it returns via the external heater then im supposing that the heater would not have been "full" obviously this has lead it to over/under work and give up completly, didnt think anything of it while i was topping up in the morning
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so it looks like its down to user error, not a dodgy heater ( only occured to me at 6 this morning tho) and i may be tempted to go and get one the same ( hydor) this morning as i know it did the job well.. when it had water to heat
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what issues you having indigoj? ( your picking up the oscars this morning arnt you? hope it goes well for you xxxxx)
 
omg what a couple of days you are having - hope the little man is ok and happily showing off his war wound

Seffie x
 
Likewise i hope the little man is ok


AK77 has more or less nailed it, as for you having pieces missing that’s not the case your weir is plumbed up properly {the way it was designed to be plumed} the problem with it though is its very fiddly to set up properly, your suppose to close the valve on the sump feed start the return pump running wait till the weir fills up just below the top of the failsafe pipe then slowly open the valve on the sump feed so the water stays just below the failsafe pipe if the water level in the weir drops then slowly close the valve till you have the water level ware you want it. to be honest it’s a royal PITA and you would be much better of moding the sump feed with ether a duso or a stock man stand pipe the duso would properly be the easiest option as you can buy all the bits for the mod from the big orange biy shop then just solvent weld them all to gether then silicone it into the bulkhead, the stand pipe will need bits and pieces from the same biy store then you will have to mod them {by drilling holes and cutting slots in the pipe work ect}
Anyhow i guess the main thing is the little man is ok and you have figured out what the problem was with the heater so it’s all good, and the duso is just food for thought for the future when you have time. But in my opinion it’s defiantly worth doing and it should not be to hard a job to complete, 1 hours work tops i would think!
Regards john
 
he`s actually happier than i expected him to be, he`s had a huuuuge big plaster put on it ( he`s only got weeny feet
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and i know cos ive had them kicking me all night :lol: ) so he`s feeling quite "proud" today - kids eh! :lol:

tank is finally up to 27c with 2 heaters in there ( dosent look pretty but they are doing the job)

and i think ive worked out whats happend
yesterday morning the water level in the sump had dropped so low that the return pump was partially exposed ( ive had a busy fewdays
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), tho it was still dragging water thru it must have been struggling, and as it returns via the external heater then im supposing that the heater would not have been "full" obviously this has lead it to over/under work and give up completly, didnt think anything of it while i was topping up in the morning
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so it looks like its down to user error, not a dodgy heater ( only occured to me at 6 this morning tho) and i may be tempted to go and get one the same ( hydor) this morning as i know it did the job well.. when it had water to heat
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what issues you having indigoj? ( your picking up the oscars this morning arnt you? hope it goes well for you xxxxx)

I do it every time I drain the back section of my tank down for maintenance/adjustment. I forget to pull the plug on the two heaters. The back section of the tank empties and 1-2 minutes later I hear a fizzing sound. "My tanks leaking?? The sumps leaking?? Why can I smell melting plastic??" :lol: Then it dawns on me that the heaters are out of the water. I've melted both plastic heater holders that stick onto the glass. Luckily mine are held in suspension just under the adjustment knob.

Get into the habit of doing daily RO top up's if you're not already doing so. It will keep your SG level much more stable and prevent this from happening again. Personally though, I'd be more inclined to use regular heaters and just place them in the sump. It'd be very difficult to break them through evapouration again, and it will safeguard against leaks too, if you just use one single piece of tube to the return feed in your tank.
 
thankyou both so much.. for the advice and best wishes :)
got to the plumb center a little late so missed the chance today :( ( today has flown by!)
anyway i did manage to get into Cardiff and get a new external heater.. had to laugh when i read the back...
"Appliance should NEVER be run horizontialy" hmm ok
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also should never be submersed in water ( probably why it blew up when i was testing it in a bowl of water then :lol:
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so ive messed about with the sump again tonight and got it to fit verticaly- not as easy as it sounds under there!

children go back to school on tuesday so im going to leave the durso till after that,, have too much on at the moment and i`ll just end up rushing and doing a bad job :/

its not that i forget to top up. its more that i forget to turn the RO off and flood the garage.. so tend to leave it off till im down to my last barrel ( in this weather) - I have a plan to convert a plastic box into an overflow tray.. all it needs is a couple of hose fittings a hose and a box.. i just can`t find time at the moment
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on my list of things to do, which is getting longer and longer and longer :lol:

shelagh xxx
 
Blimey what a couple of days :S
Am so glad the little one is OK - ouch is all I can say!!!
At least it sounds like the heater is sorted - I have used the hydor before and they are always highly recommended, but yes I do remember the comment about not being horizontal, though guess it's not something you'd think about when fitting (I faffed about with mine when I fitted it to ensure it was vertical and remember it was difficult).
Anyway, glad to hear it's getting sorted and you may even get to fix the noise in the process :nod: :good:
Martin x
 
Thanks Martin.. if i wasn`t certifiable before, i am now :lol: - but then you already knew that :lol:
he`s on the mend.. thankyou :)

the original hydor came with the setup and it was exactly how the guy had it.. didnt question it
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- lesson learnt
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.. had to get another, not even the 2x300w were coping,and i wouldnt knowingly risk it .

the tank looks a complete mess at the moment
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3 days ago it was beautiful..suppose it will get better as the corals start to recover ( and of course im hoping that the fish will take my stupidity in there stride :/ ) flippin eck.. my oscar hasn`t spoken to me all day .. i nicked his heater last night.. and hes wasnt happy.. big girls blouse he is :lol: hes got it back now so he`ll be my best friend again in the morning
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i`d like to say .. it could be worse.. but lets face it :lol:

shelagh xxxx
 
my oscar hasn`t spoken to me all day .. i nicked his heater last night.. and hes wasnt happy.. big girls blouse he is :lol: hes got it back now so he`ll be my best friend again in the morning
I Think i'd be abit annoyed if some-one stole my blanket at night too :lol:

And you sure he's not using you for free food? :lol:
 

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