Harvey's got issues

[BettaMomma]

Harvey has some major health issues going on right now, and I need some help trying to connect the dots.

I recently moved him from our living room where he was freaking out because of all the activity to my bedroom where he's left in very dim light, alone most of the time except in the evenings when I have low light on in there and I'm on the computer. He has calmed down IMMENSELY since I moved him. But, there are new issues I noticed last night when I was sitting by him with my nose pressed up against the glass.

The first thing I noticed was when he flared, his right gill raker doesn't stick out - just the left one. The gill attached to his cheek does stick out, but the raker (red part) doesn't come out.
Also, I noticed that around the edges of his gills he has more rust color than usual. And, to that note - on his gill, when he flares, the area on the outside of him that gets creased when his gills flap out seems to have become kind of whitish, like the scales have fallen off right there. I was assuming that happened because he was flaring so darn much and freaking out - like fighting full-on open mouthed wriggling and fighting with his reflection - all the time when the lights were on.

On top of everything, he has finrot. I had been medicating him with Maracyn 2, but that was because he started to chew his tail off. Now I'm at a loss as to what to do next. his med period is over for maracyn 2, and I don't wanna start something new with him until I get some advice here.

Sorry the pics are so bad... but here's kind of a close up of his face so you can see the rust color on his gills:

Any ideas on what's going on here?
I need to start him on meds or whatever is necessary soon.
I have on hand:
Stresscoat
Salt
Maracyn
Maracyn2
Tetracycline Tabs
Maracide
CopperSafe

HELP!

 

[FishyLoveBug]

DISEASE: INFLAMED GILLS
GENERAL INFO: The gill or gills of a betta may become inflamed, because of nitrate poisoning, and possibly bacterial infections, or even a defective gill (if it was born that way).

SYMPTOMS: One or both gills will not close all the way (look at betta from the top it is easier to see it then), gills may look red (inflamed) or not, in the last stages, the betta may be gasping for air, unable to breath.
TREATMENT: Isolate sick betta. Do a full jar water change every third day. Every time you change water, add antibiotic (Pick one that treats inflamed gills) to the water. In the case of nitrate poisoning, simply add one drop of methylene blue in betta’s jar.


Does that sound about right Bm?
It also sounds to me like he may have a bit of a bacterial thing going on.

To treat the bacterial problems:

Do a full water change for jars or a 70% water change for tanks. Isolate any suspected sick betta. Add one drop of marOxy or methylene Blue to each gal of water. You may add one drop per 1/2 gal jars and even one drop per 1/4 jars. I have done it a million time and have never lost one betta that way. If the betta was just spawned or just jarred, and it is likely to simply have depression: in the case of a newly jarred young betta, float his jar inside the tank where his siblins still are. This should help him cope with the isolation. In the case of a male who has just been spawned, try floating him inside a tank containing lots of other bettas, females preferably. It has always worked for me. When floating a jar in a larger tank, be careful: if you have a power filter or canister filter the water flow created will slowly but surely pull in the floating jar and once the jar is under the water flow, it will fill up with water and sink, releasing the betta into the tank!! Therefore, make sure the jar is secured somehow and cannot drift.


Please let us know how he is. I will snoop around on the net to see if I can find anything else for you.

 

[BettaMomma]

That boy has never been 100% healthy since the day I have had him. I've had him about 4 months and he's ALWAYS got something going on with him.

His eyes sit way up out of their sockets, they always have. Everyone that sees him is sure his eyes will come boinging right out at any moment. He sort of looks like he's got white eyelids. but they've always been that way, never better never worse.

He's (for quite some time now) had light flesh coloring on both of his sides just behind his gills, and his fins have always, ALWAYS had some beginning stages of finrot - but it was mostly always just the curling, never any splitting, ripping, or chunks taken off.

I really hope that the OD of MelaFix he got a few weeks back isn't going to make all the ililnesses that have probably been festering in him but never really reared their ugly heads before.

His gills don't really stick out, per say - it's just that when he tries to flare (and he's obviously flaring a WHOLE lot less than he used to, maybe cuz it hurts him to??) only one raker pops out. He's never had this issue before last night, that i've noticed. He's not gasping for air at all, and he's still swimming around perfectly fine. He still does the flaunting around like a pretty boy when I'm looking in at him, but he does not flare at me anymore - and he quit making bubble nests alltogether.

crappy.

Oh, and thanks for helping me research it.
i'm off googling around too.

 

[BettaMomma]

You know - from everything I'm reading, it's pointing to velvet.
I guess I better get the flashlight out tonight.

If anyone else has any ideas, help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[FishyLoveBug]

Ok so far I have found this:
http/www.nazarenenexus.com/betta_ed/betta_links.htm
huge page of betta links.

I am severly hoping this is not what he has:
Tuberculosis Swelling and scale protrusion, unexplained weight loss, skeletal deformity, skin defects, loss of scales, skin discoloration, eye protrusion, fin rot, loss of appetite, clamped fins, lethargic.

Please note: Humans are susceptible to this illness. Please handle fish items with care, wear clean gloves, and wash hands thoroughly if you suspect your fish may have TB.

Only reason I think this is because he has a lot of the symptoms and most likely the current medicines you are treating him with will slow it down and cure some parts of it but not fully cure the TB. Which would explain the reoccurance of the health issues.


Still checking out the million and one sites though, hang in there BM we'll get him fixed up Im sure.

 

[BettaMomma]

Holy crap.
He does have a whole bunch of those symptoms

Damn - I guess I'll be getting some rubber gloves on the way home too, then.
Of course now I'm going to start panicking, too, because I have a HORRIBLY sore throad and my head/sinuses/chest are really feeling icky.

I'm a super duper hypochondriac myself.
I haven't changed his water for a while, though, since I noticed all the stuff - but I have stuck my finger into his tank to give him some peas.

 

[FishyLoveBug]

Dont panic Bm these are all just suggestions. /comfort
I will however see if I can find more on the TB treatment and such just in case.

 

[BettaMomma]

Here's what I just found as a list of TB symptoms:

# Loss of appetite
# Progressive thinness
# Sluggish movement
# Folded fins
# Eye protrusion
# Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
# Skeletal deformity
# Hanging at the surface
# Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
# Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
# Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
# Scales loosening and falling out
# General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)

Items in red are what he has.

 

[FishyLoveBug]

Im not really finding anytging on the treatment of it yet.
Keep in mind a lot of those symptoms are symptoms of other things as well not just TB. I say for now treat him for bacterial illness till we can find out more on the TB. If he gets better and stays better from the bact. treatment yay, if not we can look more in to the TB.

 

[BettaMomma]

Yeah, that is definitely true.
He is still eating just fine, and half of these symptoms he'd lived his entire time with me having.

He has had no weight loss or deformity really, so it's very possible it could be a problem with his gills.
I'm going to give him a water change when I get home and start medicating him, probably with maracyn 2 again, but wouldn't that have done the trick with the last round rather than making him worse?

I might just say screw it and go for the tetracycline.
I don't think I've ever medicated him with that before.
That is specifically supposed to targed finrot and gill diseases, on top of a whole slew of other things too.

 

[FishyLoveBug]

Just found this:

Difficult to treat because it attacks intracellularly abd mulitplies within macrophages ( the fish's own defense system). Try a strong antibiotic such as kanamycin or streptomycin.

Never heard of either of these.

Im thinking you have the right idea with the tetracycline for now.


Dont forget to be extra extra careful with your tank tools. Dont want whatever it is to spread to everyone eeps what a mess.

 

[BettaMomma]

Yeah, nice.
I used a bucket last week that's dedicated to my fish to house harvey in while I was changing out his water.
Last night I used the same bucket for Archie.
But I did rinse it out with really hot water in between. I didn't use anything else cuz I didn't realize there was a problem w/Harvey til last night.

Also, as far as having any kind of spikes in his water, he gets 100% water changes like every 4 - 5 days so that shouldn't be an issue.

Why, oh why were fish diseases invented?


Today, however, I will use a throw away solo cup to house him in while i'm giving him a water change. fun fun fun

 

[FishyLoveBug]

I would let his plants and any other decorations soak in the hottest water you can get. Dont forget to cool them off before they go back in the tank. I know what you mean about fishy diseases Bm, they are to cute to get sick imho.

 

[BettaMomma]

Personally, I could throw away all the decor he's got right now - I've been meaning to get him new stuff for a while now anyway.
He's got some oddball blue rocks - I have extra natural colored ones I can put in there. His silk plants are starting to shred up so they need to be replaced anyway.... I might just have to go shopping for some new comfort items for him. OH darn.

Maybe a little change of scenery would do him a little bit of good, as long as he's got comfy places to rest and hide.

Poor little guy.
They're much too sweet and innocent and have been through WAY too much in their lives to spend even 5 minutes of their time at home feeling like crap.

 

[FishyLoveBug]

Please dont forget to let us know how he is ok!