Gvilleguy's Fishless Cycle Log

[waterdrop]

Yes, the "qualifying week" was not just somebody's idle speculation that waiting a little longer would be a "good thing." It is something that I sort of think of as our beginner section being kind of proud of. It came about as a bit of a group consensus. If I'm remembering right, BTT, Miss Wiggle, rabbut and some of us had been observing that a certain percentage of our cases were "re-lapsing" into mini-spikes after the big water change and first stocking. We figured out that by building the "qualification week" on to the end of the process, we could virtually eliminate all of those surprise cases. We really came to think of it as a cool thing, as over time it proved itself over and over again.

~~waterdrop~~
edit: grammar

 

[Gvilleguy]

API test kit of Nitrite level is now reading too high to test: when the drops are put in the test tube, they immediately turn purple at the bottom, and after five minutes the water is a pale grey color. So it's off the chart now. Hopefully the nitrite loving bacteria will multiply quickly in this environment and get this month long cycle finished up. We just passed 30 days of cycling.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, the soft, acid water we have in our region definately slows the process down but you seem to be into the nitrite spike stage, so things are progressing. WD

 

[Gvilleguy]

Forty days in on this cycle. No drop in nitrite spike yet. Those nitrite bacteria are taking their time growing!! I see that fishless cycling is an exercise in patience.

 

[waterdrop]

I believe its that the nitrite oxidizing bacteria are maybe somewhat slower growers plus the fact that you need almost 3 times as many (since the ammonia oxidizing bacteria process each 1ppm of ammonia into 2.7ppm of nitrite.)

Its interesting that you got your first peak at nitrite, then nitrite spiked and nitrate went to 5ppm and nitrate has just steadily stayed at 5ppm rather than creeping any higher. Every fishless cycle is a little different. My hunch (unfortunate if its correct) is that the N-Bacs also don't seem quite as enthusiastic about our soft acid type water, even when we add bicarb, as they are about the harder more naturally basic water like many of the UKers have (allowing they their water really varies a lot too however.)

The good thing about your cycle though GG was that we got in there with the bicarb early, so I'm hoping we might have shaved some days off the overall length for you.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gvilleguy]

Day 65 of my fishless cycle and I still await a drop in nitrites, which have been measuring "high" since Day 30. Except for a recent pH crash that stalled the process for a day, the ammonia levels continue to drop to zero within 12 hours of adding 4 ml to the tank each evening. So as far as I can tell I'm doing everything correctly. It's just taking a lot of patience to wait this cycle out! But let me know if you've spotted me going off track in the log.

Also, my Fluval 205 canister filter has been running 50 days now, but I have not yet cracked it open to clean it. It still seems to be putting out decent water flow. Should I just leave it alone until the cycle is completed, or do a cautious cleaning? (I know to only clean components in a bucket of tank water, etc.) I don't want to set back the cycle by disturbing the bacterial colonies.

 

[Gvilleguy]

(put comments in my prior post)

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Gviileguy, what was the pH of your tap water and what is the pH now in your tank?

There seems to be a recurring theme where nitrite processing bacteria struggle to take hold in water that is > 7.5 pH...

I'm having this trouble in my QT since removing the water in there while my Pearl Danios were in hospital, where toxins stayed zero, perhaps due to using water from the Rio 240 at the time. Ever since re-filling it with tap water just prior to adding the newly bought Garras and Torpedo Barbs (they are moving to the big tank this week, I think they are both going to love the stream current/ algae/ planted look), I've had to daily water changes due to borderline 0.1-0.3 nitrite levels everyday but one. Ammonia has never been an issue.

If your water is quite alkaline (>7.5), maybe try buying some of those carbon tablets that planted tank owners use. This will create carbonic acid, just like in my Rio240 that has the Dennerele carbon dioxide bubbler, which will lower the pH by upto 1 whole unit (depnding upon your tap water hardness, mine has a gH of 220-240mg/l and pH dropped from 8.2 to 7.5/7.6).

 

[Gvilleguy]

The natural tap water pH is around 7.2, but based on recommendations from some of the vet forum users, I have been artificially raising that with baking soda to get it up in the 8.0 range. Now I'm wondering if I should let it go back down for the nitrite phase...

 

[waterdrop]

I there is any information that the N-Bacs don't like a pH above 7.5, that is not something I've heard or read. I believe that goes against the Hovanec papers, although I'm open to the fact that I could be wrong, as I've not re-read them in a while (perhaps OM remembers?)

My guess would be that Gvill has low GH as well as KH. Of course, hardness and pH are only one factor. If it helps any Gvilleguy, one of my fishless cycles (with GH=4, KH=1 or something, but with bicarb added I was raising KH and pH) took about 80 days and had a very long nitrite spike phase just like yours. If you are frustrated enough to want to water change it this weekend, OM47 and I still have a lot of speculation that maybe gravel-clean-water-changes occasionally during the nitrite spike might help by clearing both nitrite and nitrate, which are known to slow down the N-Bacs (ie. its not just the excess nitrate in the 3rd phase, its also the high NO2 in the 2nd phase that slows down their development.) Always remember to recharge both ammonia and bicarb when doing a water change during fishless cycling.

Your log is great, one of the clearest ones to quickly grasp. Hate that your cycle is getting to be so long.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gvilleguy]

Finally, finally! Three days ago I decided to shake things up and did a 90% water change. I also lowered the temperature slightly just to make things different. Since the water change the daily nitrite levels remained at 1.00, and tonight, finally, nitrates started to go up, measuring 40 ppm (the first reading I've ever had over 5.00).

Looks like we are finally nearing the end of this very long, 70 day fishless cycle.

 

[Gvilleguy]

Looks like this tank is finally cycled! Ammonia and nitrite levels both reading zero this morning, 12 hours after last ammonia was added. Need to get tank set for qualifying period now and see how it does. I'm worried about the tendency of the pH to crash from up around 6.8/7.4 down to 6.0 quickly.

Is baking soda an acceptable short term solution to slightly raise pH with fish in the tank? Wondering if I should add a media such as crushed coral to help maintain water hardness going forward?

 

[waterdrop]

Wow, I've been holding my breath waiting for this one! There's something about offering advice to someone who lives reasonably near to you, its irrational but I would have felt terrible if the fishless cycle had never worked and you'd given up. If you are anything like me you kind of need to see it actually work in your own tank to become a more solid believer. Anyway, this is great news!

Now, about the low KH thing, I really don't have an answer for you because I've remained on the borderline myself. I really like tetras and haven't minded that my tank can be pretty acid, but I have this unopened bag of crushed coral in the shed...

I actually had a bit of a lightbulb come on for me the other day as I was staring at Oliver's quarantine tank. It has no live plants (one fake one) and no tank light (just a small sort of high intensity desk lamp that is perfect height over it and can be turned on for feeding or if you need to look in the tank. Well, I realized that this tank has absolutely no hint of algae, whereas our main tank does get some algae. I've stubbornly kept feeling like the low KH and fairly low GH might be a factor, desite Dave Spencer pretty much convincing me intellectually that that's not it. Anyway I suddenly realized I was so stupid at not realizing I had my own experiment showing me a result right in the same room! The Qtank has the same soft water as the main tank and yet has no algae whatsoever, so its really true I just need to keep lessening my lighting (and perhaps backing off my ferts a little (OM keeps reminding me I don't need any but I'm stubborn about that too, lol.) I already saw an improvement when I adjusted the timers to provide one less hour.

Anyway, all that is to say that if I were you I would not go right out and buy crushed coral. I would wait and see how the tank stabilizes with the fishless cycle not going and the fish in there. Now of course this does depend on you choosing fish that are reasonable. Livebearers are not a good choice for our water of course, but I know you know that. Its just amazing how different a tank can be chemistry wise between cycling and having fish, you can't really compare them all that much I feel.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gvilleguy]

WD - the time you take to help all the users here means a lot. Just the words of encouragement help! But you are correct - I now have a feeling of "wow - this stuff really works!". So now I need to get some actual fish swimming around, and see how the tank settles with actual biological critters! I've already warned the kids that we might kill a few fish even with this cycled tank.

 

[waterdrop]

Well, you better get it looking good cause I'm stopping by next time I'm near Greenville! A visit from waterdrop . I already missed my chance, been down that way 3 times this spring and early summer! Stop by and see Oliver's tank if you're in the triangle.

WD