Guppies, unsure of behavior and sex?

[seangee]

Just checked again, about 12 hours since last check, and now Ammonia is somewhere in between 0 and 0.25. Should I change again, or leave it? Also, Nitrite isn't quite 0, but it's not quite 0.25 either. Nitrate still 0, and pH still 8.0

The fact that you now have nitrite is good because it means you now have the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite. (Still bad because nitrite is poisonous). What should happen for the next few days is that the nitrite will increase sharply and the ammonia will quite quickly drop to 0. The bacteria that turn nitrite into nitrate haven't started to grow yet because they need nitrite. But now they can start to develop. That was the reason for suggesting moving the old filter into the new tank, you don't want to lose the bacteria that you have already cultivated.

The reason the whole process takes so long (typically 8-12 weeks) is that your water changes are removing much of the food that the bacteria needs, but you have to do this because otherwise your fish will die. So yes, keep checking and changing water.

 

[FisherFin]

I have those guppies in my tank. I love them! Never had issues with dominance. However I keep them in a big group of 15 so maybe you would need many of them to prevent the fighting.

 

[Vengified]

Just an update for everyone, we got the new tank today. I am about to get it set up and water put in it. Got a new filter, heater, some more gravel, stand for it all to stand on. I did not get plants, as I remember reading on a forum somewhere, about which specific plants, are easier to start with, and I didn't want to get plants that I would end up killing.

As suggested, after I get the tank set up, I'll move the fish. The new filter, is MUCH bigger (for 20gal), so the media, isn't even remotely similar. So, should I just drop the old filter bag into the tank? I notice, when I've been doing water changes, the shrimp RUSHES to the filter bag, and won't leave it. I literally have to shake him off lol. So ya, just throw the bag into the tank?

I have been checking twice every day, and performing 25-50% water changes daily, and as you all said, the ammonia/nitrite/Nitrate is fluctuating, still not seeing any nitrate at all, and still seeing some ammonia. I am guessing it's the bio-load on such a small tank? Hopefully the bigger tank will help it from rising so quickly.

Also, is it ok to throw the gravel from the old tank, in the new one? I would think that the gravel/decor also houses bacteria to assist with the cycling process? Thanks again every one of you! You have helped me save these fish (so far), convince my wife that we needed a big tank (thank you), and my son has had hours and hours of enjoyment, and continues to get more enthused every day, as well as flip out when we go to the fish shop, and tell me how he wants 3 of EVERY fish! So thank you all immensely!

 

[Vengified]

So... Scratch that last post about the new aquarium... Got it home, got it all set up, gravel in it, full of water... Had dinner, walked over to check temp, water all over the top of stand. Used towel to get it off, kept running out. Dang Wal-Mart Tetra tank absolutely horrid.

My wife and I tried to save $20 by going that route, for a complete set up, and it obviously cost us more than that in time, and then adding chemicals and a heater. The local fish shop, has a complete set up as well, actually, more complete, as it comes with gravel, and a heater, and I think we spent more actually at Wal-Mart with tank set up, plus additional cost for heater, and gravel.

However, the fish shop one, is undergravel filter with a powerhead, as opposed to internal filter. I have no idea how effective or how much work they are comparatively. I have read about them, and get the general idea, but does anyone have an opinion on what would be better?

I have a picture of the set up at the fish shop, it's a little blurry, but it has brand names and lists what comes with it. If anyone is still watching this thread, and has thoughts on whether this set up would be good for guppies, I would truly appreciate it?! I obviously have to take back the Wal-Mart one, and I will NOT buy another Tetra set up there. Thanks!

 

[Vengified]

Well, if anyone still monitoring this thread, just thought I would let y'all know, I got the tank with undergravel filter. Also, the fish shop gave me bacteria from their tank, so I used that in the new tank, rather than trying to continue going through the cycling in the small tank.

I researched and did a drip acclimation. Emptied half the water from small tank, and then over 3 hours, the water trickled from new tank into old. The water was already the same temperature when I did this, and pH was 0.4 difference.

The fish started out kind of exploring all over, seemed happy, even kept swimming over right in front of the powerhead and letting it shoot them across the tank. Now they are almost "hovering about two inches below the surface. They aren' really swimming, or struggling, almost looks like they are riding the current? I am guessing they are just sleepy, as it's 1am, and it was sort of a stressful day being moved and getting used to a new tank. This one has some plants though for them to hide in. Fake plants, don't have a proper light right now.

Thanks again for all the help to everyone!

 

[FisherFin]

Awesome! Post a picture on the Thread once you find some plants suitable?

 

[Essjay]

What "bacteria" did the shop give you? The bacteria we need live attached to surfaces so if they gave you water that would do nothing. But if they gave you some gravel to mix with new gravel, that would help seed the undergravel filter of the new tank. You still need to monitor for ammonia and nitrite daily, and do a water change if you see either of them above zero. With a bigger volume it should take longer for them to show up.
With an undergravel filter you can attach live plants to decor and use floating plants, both of which will not only remove ammonia from the water (reducing the amount to to be turned into nitrite) but they will make the fish feel more 'at home'

 

[Vengified]

Yea, the shop sucked some murky water out of their tank, and grabbed a cupful of a sand/gravel mixture, and put it in a sort of cheesecloth bag, then put the cheesecloth bag in the plastic bag, told me to take it straight home, get the tank set up and filter running with my gravel, and set or hang the bag in my tank. She said if I took more than an hour or two, that the bacteria could die off, but they would give me more if I needed. It's also nice to know it's a local family multi generation owned business, and they answer questions on Facebook at all hours of the day, any day of the week.

I asked about the tank she grabbed it out of, they have had guppies, mollies, plecos, tetra, glo sharks, glofish danios, and some other stuff in it in the past. She said they call it the "donor tank" and it has been running for 17 years, of the 46 years they have owned the shop, in that spot, without any drastic changes, just normal maintenance. It seemed legit to me? So I put the poo brown water and bag of gunk in my tank, didn't take long for it to clear.

As for plants, I haven' the slightest clue what kind to get? What's easy for a beginner?

Also, will wanna get some more guppies or something eventually. I know obviously wait until I'm sure it's done cycling, but is there any other guidelines on length of time? Thanks again to everyone!

 

[Essjay]

They are not terribly knowledgable if they think water contains any filter bacteria, just to warn you about taking everything they say as gospel. The ammonia and nitrite 'eating' bacteria live in the biolfilm, which is tightly bound to every surface in the tank. Water contains virtually none. And the bacteria will not die off in an hour or two - that's old thinking. As long as they are kept even just damp they will survive.

Their gravel will contain some of these bacteria and also a whole host of other micro-organisms. Since you are using an undergravel filter, the best place for their gravel is on top of your gravel. But you have no idea just how many bacteria are on their gravel so you still need to monitor ammonia and nitrite daily and do a water change if you see either of them above zero.


Floating plants are the best type for removing ammonia because they are nearer the light than plants lower down in the water, and being on the surface they can get their carbon dioxide from the air. Both of these factors allow floating plants to grow faster than lower down plants, and the faster plants grow the more fertiliser (= ammonia) they need.
Very small floating plants - duckweed
Not quite as small - salvinia, there are a few species in the hobby
Next up in size - water lettuce (Pistia stratiotes) and Amazon frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum)
Probably too big for a small tank - water sprite

Some stem plants can also be left floating such as hornwort.

I cannot find many plants in my local shops so I get them from Ebay.
But you will need a light on the tank or the plants will die.



Don't get any more fish until both ammonia and nitrite have stayed at zero for at least 7 days. And after the next batch of fish, test every day again and no more fish till the readings have been zero for 7 days. And so on till you have all your fish.
You need to be careful about adding too many fish at one go. Once the levels stay at zero it means you have enough bacteria to cope with the ammonia made by 2 guppies. When you add more fish, you increase the amount of ammonia being excreted - one fish will add 50% more ammonia - so the bacteria need to multiply tlll there are enough of them to 'eat' the extra ammonia. These bacteria are slow growing; if you add one more, perhaps two more fish they should make up the numbers quickly but if you get more than that it could take several days to multiply enough and you'll be back to doing water changes till they do catch up to the new ammonia load.
if you can get some live plants as soon as you have a light, this will help enormously, and mean you can add batches of new fish are more frequent intervals than without live plants.

 

[Vengified]

Thank you essjay! Chock full of information! I appreciate it immensely! As for adding new fish, I hadn't planned on anything whatsoever regardless of ammonia/nitrites, for at least a month anyways. I want to make sure these fish are 100% happy and healthy before putting more stress on them, as that small tank was a bad place.

They do seem MUCH happier now. I was worried about the maxi-jet 600 and the flow being too extreme, cuz it's a lot compared to their old tank, but I think they actually enjoy playing in it. They swim over to it, get right in front of it, and let it launch them across the tank. Then other times, they hang out over by the fake plants, where there is less current.

The fish store where I got the tank and bacteria, did not have live plants either. We do have a Petco and a PetSmart here, both of which have live plants, the latter has a lot more, and has them in tanks growing, the other has them in little jars with very little water. Not sure which is better? But I may go look today and see if I can find some floaters, and grab a light. The maxi jet current shouldn't be too strong for floaters right? There is no flow control, just a venturi for bubbles.

The fish store lady, I believe, is learning some of the newer methods and nitrogen cycle information as well. We visited about how I had a fish pond years ago, and never knew any of this stuff, and she also stated how she didn't know there was so much about the nitrogen cycles back then either. So I am sure, just like anyone alive, she continues to learn new things, and although she should be an expert, I don't think they have set up any new tanks, in decades, So they might not have not had to personally establish a new one from scratch.

It is reassuring to have this forum, it's members, and the wealth of information from both! I can't thank you all enough for steering me in the direction that is healthiest for our fish! If It wasn't for you, they would still be in that tiny tank, and I wouldn't have probably ever bought the test kit, or changed any water ever. I imagine they would be dead, or close to it by now. So thank you from the pit of my soul!

 

[FisherFin]

Amazon Sword is my chosen plant for beginners. I've just started keeping plants in my tank, and Amazon Sword is great because it grows quick enough, not hard to maintain (I root it in gravel), light requirements aren't even that bad(Just a desk lamp would even work).

 

[Vengified]

Thank you FisherFin! That sounds like the plant for us. My wife has killed numerous potted plants, my son has ZERO attention span when it comes to stuff like that, and I don't have time to baby plants too.

Tank is doing great! Levels are much better too, just need to get some plants. Actually just about to post a video of the guppies in the current on a new thread, so as to be more relevant to thread title. Thank you all again!

 

[Vengified]

Here is a pic of the tank, no live plants yet, but the light hood should be in, about 5 days, and I'll use your suggestions and get some live plants. Please ignore the messy kitchen table behind the tank too. If the seascape things could hide my filter and heater, I would probably have one on it.

 

[FisherFin]

Looks really good!!!

 

[FisherFin]

I know it sounds crazy, but what on earth are those guppies called?? I can't remember and I own the little things!