Guppies staying at the bottom?

[ella777]

Yes I did.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Yes I did.

Okay, if you did a 50-75% water change and the nitrates are still at 20ppm, then they were very high before. Need to up your water change schedule and amounts to keep that number down. Most of us water change if nitrates reach 20ppm, so even after a large change, you're at a point where I would change again. So especially with the heavy stocking you have, the results show you really need to be changing larger volumes at least weekly, possibly twice weekly if once a week isn't enough to keep nitrates below 20ppm.

Probably not the cause of the guppies behaviour, but high nitrates do lead to ongoing, chronic stress for the fish in the tank, even if you're not seeing visible symptoms, and stress is the biggest fish killer. leaves them more vulnerable to any other infection or stressor that comes along as well.

 

[ella777]

Okay, if you did a 50-75% water change and the nitrates are still at 20ppm, then they were very high before. Need to up your water change schedule and amounts to keep that number down. Most of us water change if nitrates reach 20ppm, so even after a large change, you're at a point where I would change again. So especially with the heavy stocking you have, the results show you really need to be changing larger volumes at least weekly, possibly twice weekly if once a week isn't enough to keep nitrates below 20ppm.

Probably not the cause of the guppies behaviour, but high nitrates do lead to ongoing, chronic stress for the fish in the tank, even if you're not seeing visible symptoms, and stress is the biggest fish killer. leaves them more vulnerable to any other infection or stressor that comes along as well.

I did a test about a week ago and nitrates were at 0.
I dont know why they suddenly shot up, is it maybe because I've put in a plant fertiliser liquid in? I thought it didnt effect fish.
What causes nitrates being high? They always used to be at 0...

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

If they're always at zero, then it's not a cycled tank. Have a look at the cycling section to learn more. It's important to understand the nitrogen cycle in this hobby I'm afraid! But fish waste and anything in the tank that decays (uneaten fish food, dead plant leaves, dead fish or dead snails etc) produces ammonia. Ammonia is very toxic to fish, it burns their gills and skin. One of the beneficial bacteria we cultivate convert that ammonia to the slightly less harmful but still highly toxic nitrite. Another beneficial bacteria converts nitrite, to the much less toxic nitrAte.

So lots of fish and lots of feeding all those fish equals a lot of fish waste, and a lot of nitrAtes as a result of the cycle processing that waste. The only real way to lower the amount of nitrAtes is through water changes, and not overstocking the tank, and a larger tank equalling more water volume to dilute the waste products. Using live plants can help as they use the ammonia produced before the BB convert it, so there's less waste being processed by BB and resulting in nitrAtes.
This video is helpful for breaking it down in an understandable way!

 

[Byron]

Picking up on a couple of issues in the recent posts, starting with the female guppies...don't get them, unless you can get them from a local breeder who knows how to raise them. Female guppies can be impregnated very, very early, and that means successive batches of fry. Male livebearers only removes this problem.

Shoaling fish...when numbers are too few, it affects these fish quite a lot. The primary detriment is increased aggression. In other words, the aggressive behaviour of the "male" barb may well be due to having been kept in too few numbers by the previous aquarist. You cannot really blame the fish, it is their inherent nature as a species. If you do not want 10+ of this species, then rehome all of them. Same holds for the tetra species. The kuhli loaches are a tad different, these appear to do OK with fewer than the standard 10+.

Nitrates...you want nitrates as close to zero as it is possible. Each aquarium has its own biological system. Nitrates are the end product so to speak of the nitrogen cycle, but when you have sufficient live plants you should be able to get the nitrates very low. Some manage to keep them at zero--this does not mean the tank is not cycled, it means the plants are grabbing the ammonia/ammonium in sufficient amounts that produce no nitrite and no nitrate compared to bacterial nitrification. And you never wait for nitrates to increase before doing a water change. The goal is to keep nitrates as low as the system will allow, and regular water changes create this stability. Nitrates may rise between water changes, but this means a couple of ppm, not something like 0 to 10 ppm, or 15 or 20 ppm. If you get nitrate down to zero, keep it there as much as possible. Over a period of 12 years my 8 tanks all tested in the 0 to 5ppm range (API liquid test) between water changes. I've no idea if the nitrate was zero, or 1 ppm, or 2 ppm, or 3 or 4 or 5 ppm, but it absolutely never went above this lowest colour, and that is what you want. Not overstocking, not overfeeding, regular water changes, keeping the filter clean, substrate vacuum if needed, and fast-growing live plants all contribute to this goal.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Nitrates...you want nitrates as close to zero as it is possible. Each aquarium has its own biological system. Nitrates are the end product so to speak of the nitrogen cycle, but when you have sufficient live plants you should be able to get the nitrates very low. Some manage to keep them at zero--this does not mean the tank is not cycled, it means the plants are grabbing the ammonia/ammonium in sufficient amounts that produce no nitrite and no nitrate compared to bacterial nitrification.

Technically it's possible to keep them at zero, but it isn't easy, and done by people who really know what they're doing. In this case, in a tank so heavily stocked and still showing 20ppm nitrates right after a 75% water change, the idea that all previous water tests showed zero nitrates is sus. I'd be worried that the kit is not accurate, if it's always showing zero nitrates in such a heavily stocked tank that doesn't seem to be planted? Not sure about the planting situation.

 

[ella777]

I'm so confused now. So nitrates are bad. I dont know why I have them in my tank, I've done the same I always do.

The nitrates always used to be at 0 but now they've gone up to 20.

So I shouldnt get more females because they'll get pregnant by the other females?

I have three plants. One is very big though.

My test strips only measure something 0 - 20 and so on, it's not accurate like 0.1 0.2 0.3 etc

 

[Byron]

So I shouldnt get more females because they'll get pregnant by the other females?

No, not the issue. When livebearers produce a batch of fry, it is difficult if not impossible to discern male and female, they are so small and lacking colour. Some people assume that if they separate the male/females once they can tell them apart by sight, all is well. But this is not the case. Males can impregnate females very early. The point being that if you buy females in a store tank, it is probable that they have been impregnated. We have had threads in the past from members who bought females and a couple of weeks later they had fry. It is safer to only acquire males; and they are more colourful anyway.

Re the nitrates, I would get a liquid API test, they seem to be reliable. If the initial colour is as wide a range as somewhere between 0 and 20, it is not very precise. The point of my previous post was that nitrates should be consistent within a given range. If they are zero one day, and two days later they actually are 20 ppm, this is too great an increase.

 

[ella777]

The point being that if you buy females in a store tank, it is probable that they have been impregnated.

Re the nitrates, I would get a liquid API test, they seem to be reliable.

Oh okay, I get it. Is it bad if I have guppy fry? Can't I move the pregnant mum to the 70l while the other fish are in the 200l?

But anyway, none of the guppies I've had have been pregnant. I thought it was easy to tell if they are? Wouldnt the pet shop know already?

Also, the API test kit is really expensive.

 

[Byron]

Oh okay, I get it. Is it bad if I have guppy fry? Can't I move the pregnant mum to the 70l while the other fish are in the 200l?

But anyway, none of the guppies I've had have been pregnant. I thought it was easy to tell if they are? Wouldnt the pet shop know already?

Also, the API test kit is really expensive.

I would not rely on advice from any store staff unless I personally knew their level of knowledge and it was reliable. They are there to sell fish. Sometimes staff in an independent store may have training, but often minimal; staff in chain pet stores most likely do not.

The issue is the number of fish that will overpopulate your tank. If say you have three or four females, and they begin producing 15 or 20 fry every month, what are you going to do with them? Some will be eaten by other fish, maybe all will, but most aquarists find the increase in livebearer fry difficult to manage.

Look for the API test online, probably cheaper. Or there may be other reliable ones.

 

[ella777]

I would not rely on advice from any store staff unless I personally knew their level of knowledge and it was reliable. They are there to sell fish. Sometimes staff in an independent store may have training, but often minimal; staff in chain pet stores most likely do not.

The issue is the number of fish that will overpopulate your tank. If say you have three or four females, and they begin producing 15 or 20 fry every month, what are you going to do with them? Some will be eaten by other fish, maybe all will, but most aquarists find the increase in livebearer fry difficult to manage.

Look for the API test online, probably cheaper. Or there may be other reliable ones.

I already have females that I've bought from the same shop and none of them are pregnant. They seem to know a bit about fish.
If they did give birth, can't I give them to a shop? And keep some?
Also I really like guppies and I only have 5 left, I thought they needed to live in bigger groups.
How many do you recommend I keep together? I currently have 5, so I would get maybe 5 more? Or 10 more?

I checked online and they're about £50

 

[emeraldking]

I already have females that I've bought from the same shop and none of them are pregnant.

Even if they aren't pregnant, it's still doubtful wether they are storing sperm packets or not. Female guppies can store sperm packets for over a year without getting pregnant. For it's the female herself which decides wether to release stored sperm packets from the folds of her fallopian tube or not to fertilize her eggs.