I got a Python Water Changer for Christmas, so now I don't have an excuse not to do Water Changes. I have read several opinions online but I return to the TROPICAL FISH FORUM, to the experts. Just kidding, I really do get the best advice here, but anyway, I have a 60gal tank and am planning a long over due WC. I have a mark which shows about where a 30% WC would be on my tank. Now when I dose with my WATER CONDITIONER of choice, do I dose the tank for 60gals or do I dose for the amount of water swapped out. In my case about 20gals. Is it 60gals or 20gals. Thanx
Got a WC question for ya'll
- Thread starter Jerry Sem
- Start date
directions on the bottle say to dose for the entire volume of the tank
others will say to dose for the volume of water added...I would err on the higher side.
Just be sure to agitate the water using the python when adding water to ensure fully mixing the conditioner with the water as much as possible.
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others will say to dose for the volume of water added...I would err on the higher side.
Just be sure to agitate the water using the python when adding water to ensure fully mixing the conditioner with the water as much as possible.
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Be sure to vote in our all important Tank of the Year Tournament
It depends. What's your water conditioner of choice?
I use prime and dose for the total volume of the tank.
Pour it into the stream to help it go through the whole tank.
I use prime and dose for the total volume of the tank.
Pour it into the stream to help it go through the whole tank.
I do massive water changes 50%-70% of the tank using a garden hose. When pouring water back into the tank, I dose for the full tank and slowly pour it into the stream of the fresh water going to the tank. I use either Prime or Tetra.
When doing WC's with a hose (Python), dose conditioner for the entire volume of the tank
When doing WCs with buckets, dose conditioner for the bucket(s) amount
What kind of conditioner are you using?
When doing WCs with buckets, dose conditioner for the bucket(s) amount
What kind of conditioner are you using?
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
It is pretty easy rule to follow and is suggested by many of the manufacturers.
If you are putting water directly into the tank from your tap, then dose for the entire volume of the tank and put it into the tank before you add the new water.
If you prepare your water to be returned to the tank in a container outside of the tank and then you add it, dose dechlor in the changing water based on its volume.
If you are putting water directly into the tank from your tap, then dose for the entire volume of the tank and put it into the tank before you add the new water.
If you prepare your water to be returned to the tank in a container outside of the tank and then you add it, dose dechlor in the changing water based on its volume.
In my view, using double the necessary amount is merely doubling the profits of the manufacturers. I have never come across any scientific evidence that it is necessary. @TwoTankAmin have you seen any? My long-held thinking has been that the amount of conditioner needed to be effective is whatever amount will handle the volume of chlorinated fresh water. Regardless of whether added to the water in the bucket (as I did with my 10g tank that otherwise overflowed too easily!) or directly to the tank, but only the amount needed for the volume of fresh water, not the entire tank. No evidence that I have come across disproves this.
I discussed this with Neale Monks some time back, and he suggested that slightly overdosing was probably good caution especially for the inexperienced. But it was not necessary so far as being effective, provided the appropriate amount for the fresh water was used. No argument there.
I then asked about the excess conditioner's effect on fish. I have long understood that substances dissolved in the tank water can end up inside the fish as the tank water passes through the cells via osmosis, into the fish's bloodstream and internal organs. And how safe was this? He agreed on the principle, and said it would depend upon whether or not the conditioner chemicals are able to diffuse across the cell membranes. And on this, he had never encountered any scientific evidence either way.
I discussed this with Neale Monks some time back, and he suggested that slightly overdosing was probably good caution especially for the inexperienced. But it was not necessary so far as being effective, provided the appropriate amount for the fresh water was used. No argument there.
I then asked about the excess conditioner's effect on fish. I have long understood that substances dissolved in the tank water can end up inside the fish as the tank water passes through the cells via osmosis, into the fish's bloodstream and internal organs. And how safe was this? He agreed on the principle, and said it would depend upon whether or not the conditioner chemicals are able to diffuse across the cell membranes. And on this, he had never encountered any scientific evidence either way.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
I think it has to do with the amount of time the dechlor will remain effective in a tank until it is either used up neutralizing or because it loses its ability to dechlorinate. But, it is rare I can see the need to double dose intentionally.
Persnally, I would think that it matters how large a change one is doing. I would not dose the entire tank volume is I was only changeing10 or 20%. Different brands do claim differing times for the persistence of their product in the water and its being able to do its job.
While there is no need to over dose most things we might add to a tank, when it comes to chlorine it is better to err on the side of using too much rather than too little dechlor. But double seem too much. However, I also believe that the companies who make the products we use to kill our fish. Give all the years and useage of dechlors, I have to assume that overdosing it within reason should not harm most fish. If this did we hobbyists would have figured that out long ago.
Consider that most of us do not know he exact volume of water in any of our tanks. Anything in the tanks not water means that much less water than can fit. So substrate, rocks and wood all displace water and reduce the tank's capacity for holding water. Then, most of us do not fill that tank to the point it would overflow should much more water be added, On my rimmed tanks I want the water line to be above the edge of the frame so it is not visible. That means there is space between the water and the lid.
But when we remove the water from and established tank with substrate and other decor, most of us have no real idea what % of the water we have removed.
When I do fish events and use 50/50 my RO/DI water and half the hotel's water, I estimate the dechlor when I add it. I tend to be sure it is enough which likely means it is more than needed. I do not lose fish at events.
Persnally, I would think that it matters how large a change one is doing. I would not dose the entire tank volume is I was only changeing10 or 20%. Different brands do claim differing times for the persistence of their product in the water and its being able to do its job.
While there is no need to over dose most things we might add to a tank, when it comes to chlorine it is better to err on the side of using too much rather than too little dechlor. But double seem too much. However, I also believe that the companies who make the products we use to kill our fish. Give all the years and useage of dechlors, I have to assume that overdosing it within reason should not harm most fish. If this did we hobbyists would have figured that out long ago.
Consider that most of us do not know he exact volume of water in any of our tanks. Anything in the tanks not water means that much less water than can fit. So substrate, rocks and wood all displace water and reduce the tank's capacity for holding water. Then, most of us do not fill that tank to the point it would overflow should much more water be added, On my rimmed tanks I want the water line to be above the edge of the frame so it is not visible. That means there is space between the water and the lid.
But when we remove the water from and established tank with substrate and other decor, most of us have no real idea what % of the water we have removed.
When I do fish events and use 50/50 my RO/DI water and half the hotel's water, I estimate the dechlor when I add it. I tend to be sure it is enough which likely means it is more than needed. I do not lose fish at events.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Oops! I wrote above "However, I also believe that the companies who make the products we use to kill our fish. Give...." It should have said "However, I also believe that the companies who make the products we use do not kill our fish. Given..."
Sorry.
Sorry.
You can edit your own older posts
AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
Disclaimer: I have untreated well water for aquarium water changes so I don't typically use any conditioners! However, I have used Seachem Safe (powder version of Prime) in instances of suspected ammonia content.
So lets first speak of WC volume. I have always advocated 50% (or more) weekly or even bi-weekly in some cases. (see Partial Water Changes - Fast and Easy). However, if you have Chloramine in your source water (more and more these days) less is most likely safer! (see Partial Water Changes - A Possible Failure) As to the amount of conditioner, there has long been a great debate over whether the amount should be for just the new water being added or the entire tank volume. Manufacturers all recommend adding conditioner for the entire tank volume - perhaps a marketing strategy for consumers to use more product, but most likely to better ensure against product failure and fish loss.
One could see that if you treated the water before adding to the tank, you'd only need an amount for that volume. But if/when adding source water directly to the tank, the conditioner is diluted and may not be as effective especially in cases where increased amounts of chlorine/chloramine have been used.
(a former president of the Central New York Aquarium Society lost his entire fishroom following a routine water change where it was suspected that increased amounts of chlorine had been used due to water main issues).
The bottom line is that many report no issues using only the amount of conditioner for the amount of fresh source water being added. On the other hand, the safer approach is to follow the mfg recommendation to treat for the entire tank volume. The hobbyist has to make the choice.
So lets first speak of WC volume. I have always advocated 50% (or more) weekly or even bi-weekly in some cases. (see Partial Water Changes - Fast and Easy). However, if you have Chloramine in your source water (more and more these days) less is most likely safer! (see Partial Water Changes - A Possible Failure) As to the amount of conditioner, there has long been a great debate over whether the amount should be for just the new water being added or the entire tank volume. Manufacturers all recommend adding conditioner for the entire tank volume - perhaps a marketing strategy for consumers to use more product, but most likely to better ensure against product failure and fish loss.
One could see that if you treated the water before adding to the tank, you'd only need an amount for that volume. But if/when adding source water directly to the tank, the conditioner is diluted and may not be as effective especially in cases where increased amounts of chlorine/chloramine have been used.
(a former president of the Central New York Aquarium Society lost his entire fishroom following a routine water change where it was suspected that increased amounts of chlorine had been used due to water main issues).
The bottom line is that many report no issues using only the amount of conditioner for the amount of fresh source water being added. On the other hand, the safer approach is to follow the mfg recommendation to treat for the entire tank volume. The hobbyist has to make the choice.
Get a bicycle for your fish. It will be as useful as the python.
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