Glow Lights - It's A Mystery!

[abih2005]

Yep - but not sure where to get mature gravel from, don't know anyone else who owns fish! That and I don't fancy going to P@H again!

 

[stoneagedinosaur]

Whereabouts are you Abih? Someone may be able to suggest another LFS near you?

 

[Curiosity101]

I said a heck of alot more than just about mature gravel... including specifically what types of media you want depending on the filter... Apart from anything else most people use box filters/sumps. Gravel filters are very much a thing of the past.

 

[abih2005]

Heya - I know you did - still wouldn't know where to get mature filter (box) bacterium from - I'm in Preston, but I'm not originally from here so wouldn't know where to go for reputable dealers, everyone recommended P@H when I first started out but after losing as many fish as I have, I don't fancy going back!

 

[Curiosity101]

I would suggest google and the words 'preston tropical fish'. Should get you started I can't help much further with regards to actual shops. You don't need a reputable shop for media. If they've had fish for a long time, and they have pads/foam/media of some description that they've had for awhile then it's pretty much 100% that they will be covered with the bacteria you want.

And I wouldn't write pets at home off. Yes they're pretty rubbish when it comes to advice (though that's not true of all stores). But so long as the fish department is well kept then buying fish and supplies from there is fine. I'd call up your local one and ask them if you can have/buy some mature media or filter gunk cause your tank isn't cycled (due to incorrect info from them) and you're losing alot of fish.
Explain what media is if they don't know and then if they say ok go down there and check the tanks out. You need to look for any signs of infective diseases such as whitespot and columnaris. White spot is like little white flecs of sand/sugar attached to the fish. And columnaris is fluffy cottony growth. Both are infective so could be introduced to your tank if you took media from pets at home (they often use central filtering systems...and they wont neccesarily know off the top of their heads which tanks are filtered together etc).

But presuming the tanks are clear of those two diseases you're pretty much safe to take some media from them. You will hopefully save your fish by doing it. But also you need to start doing some big water changes. I would suggest 2 x 80% today, and then 80% there after until you get a test kit and can test the levels in your water. Apart from anything else you need a test kit to be sure you're fully cycled (when you finally are), cause you don't want to buy anymore fish until then.

 

[abih2005]

That's a lotta water! I will go down to P@H to ask about mature filter media, there's another place someone just recommended -but someone poo pooed so argh!

I'm starting to have second thoughts to be honest, had I know it would be this much hassle I wouldn't have bothered!!

 

[Curiosity101]

Seriously... are you actually reading my whole post or just skimming it? I explained about 'bad' lfs with regards to whether you can get media from there and what to look out for etc.

Fish keeping doesn't have to be hard, or a hassle. It can be very easy if you have the right info from the off. Annoying there is no 'test' or 'law' that says you need to know how to keep fish to sell them. Also I correct someone at pets at home once (as politely as possible may I add). And they basically just said 'Oh well we go on guidance from vets so it is right'... I was like...errrr yeah. Leaving a tank of water for 1 week makes it safe for fish...hmmm.

Anyways I'm deviating slightly.
If you want to make things 100x easier for yourself then go to pets at home, return all your fish and ask for a refund.
Then buy a good liquid test kit (API Freshwater Master Test Kit £18 from ebay, or just liquid ammonia and liquid nitrite kit if you don't have £18 to hand).
Then buy a bottle of household ammonia from boots
And then carry out a fishless cycle. Your tank would actually be ready and safe for fish in 6-8 weeks.

You wouldn't have to worry about fish being continually poisoned.
You wouldn't have to do any water changes until right at the end when you do one big one to lower nitrates before buying fish.
While you're waiting you can decide on exactly what you want your tank to look like (planning what to stock it with is half the fun!), and then when it's ready you can stock it with your chosen fish and shouldn't have anymore problems.

 

[abih2005]

Yes - did read your post - which is why, like I said, I am going to Pets at Home to ask about gravel and filter media, but since you've suggested returning the fish and getting it cycled in a fishless manner I may consider that.... once I've finished the business of planning for Year 6...

 

[nessar]

I agree, return them and do a fishless cycle, especially since you have so sensitive fish - to be honest id be surprised if any were left soon. And you can do a fishless cycle for as long as you want, to build up as much bacteria as you can - for instance if you are going to have messy fish then you could make sure your filter is ticking over lots and lots of ammonia in 12 hours. My tank is 60 litres and it took just over a month to do 5ppm ammonia with no seeded media, but I got it up to 8ppm before I got fish, just to be sure. Plus you are going to spend a fortune in water dechlorinator if you do a fish-in-cycle. Oh and you can get a larger amount of fish to start with at the end of the cycle, because the bacteria will be there and waiting.

EDIT: oh and I've seen the filter system in P@H, it was out for some reason, it looks like theyrre all run off the same filter, so you best make sure if you do decide to get mature media from them.

 

[abih2005]

*keels over* So... if I do return the fish, what then - do I literally just empty the tank and start again? I have four live plants in there! I'm sorry for coming over completely clueless, I read four different books (One by RSPCA) and the cycling business is not stressed at all!!

I agree, return them and do a fishless cycle, especially since you have so sensitive fish - to be honest id be surprised if any were left soon. And you can do a fishless cycle for as long as you want, to build up as much bacteria as you can - for instance if you are going to have messy fish then you could make sure your filter is ticking over lots and lots of ammonia in 12 hours. My tank is 60 litres and it took just over a month to do 5ppm ammonia with no seeded media, but I got it up to 8ppm before I got fish, just to be sure. Plus you are going to spend a fortune in water dechlorinator if you do a fish-in-cycle. Oh and you can get a larger amount of fish to start with at the end of the cycle, because the bacteria will be there and waiting.

EDIT: oh and I've seen the filter system in P@H, it was out for some reason, it looks like theyrre all run off the same filter, so you best make sure if you do decide to get mature media from them.

 

[abih2005]

Seriously regret getting the tank and stuff now, just don't have the time or energy to sort anything out.

*keels over* So... if I do return the fish, what then - do I literally just empty the tank and start again? I have four live plants in there! I'm sorry for coming over completely clueless, I read four different books (One by RSPCA) and the cycling business is not stressed at all!!

I agree, return them and do a fishless cycle, especially since you have so sensitive fish - to be honest id be surprised if any were left soon. And you can do a fishless cycle for as long as you want, to build up as much bacteria as you can - for instance if you are going to have messy fish then you could make sure your filter is ticking over lots and lots of ammonia in 12 hours. My tank is 60 litres and it took just over a month to do 5ppm ammonia with no seeded media, but I got it up to 8ppm before I got fish, just to be sure. Plus you are going to spend a fortune in water dechlorinator if you do a fish-in-cycle. Oh and you can get a larger amount of fish to start with at the end of the cycle, because the bacteria will be there and waiting.

EDIT: oh and I've seen the filter system in P@H, it was out for some reason, it looks like theyrre all run off the same filter, so you best make sure if you do decide to get mature media from them.

 

[nessar]

dont worry, during a fishless cycle you check the ammonia levels every couple of days,and add ammonia whenever it gets a bit low. Thats it - no water changes or anything. No dont bother emptying the tank, just make sure you havee the ammonia ready when you get rid of the fish, so the bacteria doesnt die without food. As previously said by curiosity, Boots do the right ammonia.

You can cycle with plants in there, they actually use ammonia nitrite and nitrate as food, just be aware they may get alage on them. Mine didnt though. And if they do, just get a couple of apple snails (the orange ones P@H sell) or some shrimp and they will eventually eat their way through it. Also you have to make sure with plants that you give them light every day.

I would say chuck the books and rely on this forum and others to help you.

Look at the beginner section and find the begginners resource centre, from there look at fishless cycling. Just be aware that normally people recommend to not turn the lights on during the cycle, but you will have to to keep your plants alive. Algae may look a bit messy, but its free food for some fish and invertebrates so its not that bad! I actually try to encourage it to grow, as I have snails and shrimp.

 

[abih2005]

Thanks for your comment - my boyf has managed to convince me to persevere, I phoned P@H, was told that 'it's unusual that we take fish back when tanks have cycled' - I explained that clearly it hadn't cycled and that really I shouldn't have been sold said fish. Response to this was something along lines of well we have products to help cycle the tank blah blah, explained about receiving stress zyme, I asked about getting mature filter media 'no we don't do that, the produts we sell do that'.... GRRRRR so I explained that quite frankly I'd found an online forum that had been more helpful than the staff at the store, and could I return the fish..."yes, I'm sure we can sort something out but your fish, if you use stress zyme should be fine within a couple of weeks...."

Any comments on this appreciated, or they're going (the fishies) back tomorrow and I'm getting the ammonia sorted.

 

[nessar]

They just repeat what theyre told, they often dont have fish of their own. Get them to take the fish , no matter if they dont give you a refund, you will spend a fortune on dechlorinator having to do such big water changes every day if you keep them.

Oh but in case you missunderstood that last comment - you do still need to dechlorinate water for your fishless cycle, as chlorine will kill the good bacteria. Hopefully you already have some built up and your fishless cycle wont take too long.

Its the best way to do it - ill fish are a nightmare.

EDIT: remember to put the ammonia in less than 24 hours after your fish have gone, otherwise youll starve your bacteria. so get some ammonia now. If you cant get it in your local boots, order it from boots online. It is important you get the right ammonia because some other brands have additives and this can poison the tank. Boots one is fine, used it myself.

 

[abih2005]

Hiya - you're so lovely for helping me out here

Have just bought an API full works kit off ebay, will get ammonia when I head into town tomorrow morning after I've taken the fish back (with a verbal complaint!).

So..... Looks like I'm gonna trawl for fishless cycling information - luckily there's shedloads on here!!

Thanks

They just repeat what theyre told, they often dont have fish of their own. Get them to take the fish , no matter if they dont give you a refund, you will spend a fortune on dechlorinator having to do such big water changes every day if you keep them.

Oh but in case you missunderstood that last comment - you do still need to dechlorinate water for your fishless cycle, as chlorine will kill the good bacteria. Hopefully you already have some built up and your fishless cycle wont take too long.

Its the best way to do it - ill fish are a nightmare.

EDIT: remember to put the ammonia in less than 24 hours after your fish have gone, otherwise youll starve your bacteria. so get some ammonia now. If you cant get it in your local boots, order it from boots online. It is important you get the right ammonia because some other brands have additives and this can poison the tank. Boots one is fine, used it myself.