Glow Lights - It's A Mystery!

[abih2005]

Had a 54l tank cycled with plants, no fish for 3 weeks, water stats were fine. Went to Pets at Home, got 5 Neon Tetras - first week they were fine. Last Friday - I added five Glow Lights, this morning I awoke to find a dead fish in the plants, with another missing. Only logical conclusion is that one got eaten....

Now I'm watching another glowlight appearing to convulse, it's on its own in the corner at the moment - am really concerned and don't know what to do! Water tested on Friday as absolutely fine. Only thing I did was feed em blood worms last night!!

Please help!

 

[abih2005]

Had a 54l tank cycled with plants, no fish for 3 weeks, water stats were fine. Went to Pets at Home, got 5 Neon Tetras - first week they were fine. Last Friday - I added five Glow Lights, this morning I awoke to find a dead fish in the plants, with another missing. Only logical conclusion is that one got eaten....

Now I'm watching another glowlight appearing to convulse, it's on its own in the corner at the moment - am really concerned and don't know what to do! Water tested on Friday as absolutely fine. Only thing I did was feed em blood worms last night!!

Please help!

UPDATE - 8 alive yesterday - took the convulsing one back... Got three replacements = 10 right? One Glowlights dies within 10 minutes after knocking itself out (I kid ye not), one neon (presumably the 'eaten' one - found dead behind filter. (emo?) - which makes 8 fish alive.... SO WHY CAN I ONLY FIND 7?

 

[stoneagedinosaur]

What are your stats like now as in levels? Where's your filter and intake? Have you had a look in there? You say cycled - what do you mean exactly? Did you do fishless cycling?

Neons should really go into a fully cycled tank with mature filter of at least 6 months age...

 

[abih2005]

Went to Pets at Home with ill fish, they tested water. PH fine, ammonia fine, Nitrites 'elevated, but not that bad' - Got sent back with some 'Stress Zyme' - to introduce more bacteria into the tank.

Had the tank up and running with plants for 3 weeks prior to adding 5 Neons. Was told this was fine.

Added 5 glow-lights a week later.

Currently have 4 glow-lights and 3 neons.

Have been told to continue stress zyme regime then return in 2 weeks.

Any ideas?

 

[stoneagedinosaur]

Looks like you did what I did... Your tank isn't cycled. If you look in my signature line there's a link to Fish in cycling, that's what you are doing. It's not too bad and it's what I did!

Buy your own test kit so you can monitor how your stats change. Unfortunately not all LFS can be trusted... Nitrites should be as close to 0 as possible. Anything above 0 is not good for fish.

Have a look at the link to fish in cycling, it's some really good advice

Good luck

 

[Paradise3]

One Glowlight dies within 10 minutes after knocking itself out (I kid ye not), one neon (presumably the 'eaten' one - found dead behind filter. (emo?)

Can i just ask.... How did it knock itself out?
The "emo" neon might have just got caught in the filter flow after dying and got caught behind the filter. At least your neons haven't done what my aunties neons did, they really were emos. They swam into the filter and exploded! She sat and watched them swim in then somehow get out and explode. They had been in the tank for 5 years and then suddenly they did this. It sounded funny but it wasn't.
I agree that you are in the middle of a fish in cycle.

~AJ~

 

[abih2005]

The fish KO'd itself in the throes of what looked like convulsions, it managed to surface, flip, hit the condensation lid then land...sinking to the substrate. Quite horrible to watch, we swiftly netted it, hooked it to side of tank hoping it might regain consciousness but it just went.

As for fish in cycle - glad to know that someone asides from the cretins at PaH actually knows what's going on! Hopefully the Stress Zyme will do its thing soon.

Thanks for the advice, I was starting to get a bit disheartened!

One Glowlight dies within 10 minutes after knocking itself out (I kid ye not), one neon (presumably the 'eaten' one - found dead behind filter. (emo?)

Can i just ask.... How did it knock itself out?
The "emo" neon might have just got caught in the filter flow after dying and got caught behind the filter. At least your neons haven't done what my aunties neons did, they really were emos. They swam into the filter and exploded! She sat and watched them swim in then somehow get out and explode. They had been in the tank for 5 years and then suddenly they did this. It sounded funny but it wasn't.
I agree that you are in the middle of a fish in cycle.

~AJ~

 

[nessar]

Stress zyme? thats the one that is meant to boost bacteria in the filter. dont waste your money! They really dont work. I did a fishless cycle and had time after cycling as well to experiment with these products. I can tell you that I noticed no significant speeding-up of the process of ammonia being eaten when using the following products:

Cycle by Nutrafin
Stress Zyme by API
Safe Start by Tetra

and they are all ridiculously expensive!

The problem is that the actual filter bacteria is heat sensitive, and needs flowing water through it to provide oxygen. Which doesnt happen in these bottles. The bacteria do eat ammonia in these bottles, but they are bottled with their own 'food' to keep them alive so they have little effect on your filter. EDIT: just to clarify, what I mean is they are a different type of bacteria to your filter bacteria.

Try and see if you can get some mature filter squeezings, or sponges, or even a bit of gravel from a mature tank. This will speed up the cycling process. I too was given the same advice by P@H, but I had read about cycling already. Just remember when you get advice from them that they basically just have to learn a script - its not their fault but you cant trust it 100%.

Also take out any zeolite cartridges. They will absorb the ammonia, which may seem good, but it isnt, as it will starve the bacteria of food and kill them. Then it reaches capacity and there isnt enough bacteria to eat the ammonia that it has stopped absorbing. Result = ammonia spike and fish deaths.

And whatever you do, dont add any more fish! New fish increase the ammonia and also bring in new diseases and bad bacteria, which could be fatal for your current residents. If your tetras' school drops below the reccommended amount, just wait till the cycle is over to top it up. It is the far lesser of 2 evils.

 

[abih2005]

Oh I didn't waste my money I said this..... (To hapless lady, fishing out dead fish (at least 15) from tanks while listening to me....

"I've been online, researching possible problems using a site I joined, it looks like Neons weren't the right starter fish for me cos they're not hardy enough, yes I bought them but shouldn't you have disallowed them from being sold? My tank doesn't appear to have finished cycling yet I was told by the assistant that 3 weeks was enough? So.... getting more fish is stupid, what are you going to do - since I was incorrectly sold fish to start with?"

I got a massive bottle of free Stress Zyme.

But if like you say - it's a load of nonsense then I will try to to get some mature gravel from somewhere, but to be honest - the amount of crap within my existing gravel when I sift through and suck it up is unbelievable!!

Thanks for your help.

Stress zyme? thats the one that is meant to boost bacteria in the filter. dont waste your money! They really dont work. I did a fishless cycle and had time after cycling as well to experiment with these products. I can tell you that I noticed no significant speeding-up of the process of ammonia being eaten when using the following products:

Cycle by Nutrafin
Stress Zyme by API
Safe Start by Tetra

and they are all ridiculously expensive!

The problem is that the actual filter bacteria is heat sensitive, and needs flowing water through it to provide oxygen. Which doesnt happen in these bottles. The bacteria do eat ammonia in these bottles, but they are bottled with their own 'food' to keep them alive so they have little effect on your filter. EDIT: just to clarify, what I mean is they are a different type of bacteria to your filter bacteria.

Try and see if you can get some mature filter squeezings, or sponges, or even a bit of gravel from a mature tank. This will speed up the cycling process. I too was given the same advice by P@H, but I had read about cycling already. Just remember when you get advice from them that they basically just have to learn a script - its not their fault but you cant trust it 100%.

Also take out any zeolite cartridges. They will absorb the ammonia, which may seem good, but it isnt, as it will starve the bacteria of food and kill them. Then it reaches capacity and there isnt enough bacteria to eat the ammonia that it has stopped absorbing. Result = ammonia spike and fish deaths.

And whatever you do, dont add any more fish! New fish increase the ammonia and also bring in new diseases and bad bacteria, which could be fatal for your current residents. If your tetras' school drops below the reccommended amount, just wait till the cycle is over to top it up. It is the far lesser of 2 evils.

 

[nessar]

Good good If you can steal a filter sponge off someone that would be better - instant cycle pretty much. Or filter squeezings would be okay.

I was getting fed up of LFSs selling this bacteria-in-a-bottle product so I posted this at 3am, and already got loads of replies. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/327165-bottled-bacteria-poll/page__fromsearch__1


Keep it by all means, just dont buy any more.

 

[Curiosity101]

abih2005 - Do you have your own test kit yet? It seems like you're more than capable (once you're actually given the correct info). So I really would urge you get one to keep an eye on your stats and finish the cycle without losing anymore fish.

In a tropical tank you would be incredibly shocked to see how fast a dead fish is eaten/disintegrates (be it in the filter or in the tank). The behaviour you're describing (convulsions), normally indicated nitrite poisoning.
Ammonia poisoning is normally gasping and lethargy (because the fishes gills are burnt so they can't carry out gas exchange efficiently), at first they just become alot less active(presumably to conserve the little oxygen they have), and then gasp from the top of the tank (because air has a higher content of O2 and they can push it over their gills to oxygenate them). Once they get to the gasping stage they're pretty much gonners.
Nitrite poising is normally erratic behaviour like flips and convulsions cause it affects the nervous system.

If you simply left the tank for 3 weeks before adding fish (as in filled with water only and just left it), that doesn't start a cycle (as said). The cycle only starts when you add ammonia to the tank (either from a bottle or by adding fish which excrete ammonia). (Though by the sounds of it if you've read the fish in cycling topic then you understand that).

Finally just to point you in the right direction of getting some bacteria to seed/boost your cycle (though also mentioned by nessar).
If the person has an undergravel filter then you want some of their gravel (or gunk from the gravel). Which you put in your tank or filter.
If the person has a box filter, external filter, sponge filter etc then you either want some of their media that has been in the tank for a while so definitely has bacteria on it (media=sponge, filter floss, ceramic noodles, bioballs etc), you then put it directly into the filter. Or you want filter gunk, so they open up the filter and swish the sponges around in some water release lots of dirt n grime which should hopefully (normally) have some bacteria in it. You take the gunked up water home and pour it into you tank. Your filter sucks it up and the bacteria latch onto your pads.

Hope that helps if anything was still unclear.

 

[abih2005]

So upset! Another glow-light started twitching about half an hour ago, had a weird flaky head as well, and was not moving at all. I don't have a hospital tank but I transferred it to a shallow perspex rectangular dish - with tank water and new water treated with dechlorinator. It's properly gasping at the moment and the rest of the fish have noticed its disappearance. Very very sad!

 

[nessar]

okay whenever you see an illness you need to do a big waterchange asap. also you might do more harm than good keeping him in the container, as the water temperature will fluctuate without a heater.

 

[abih2005]

Hi - that fish, upon showing no further convulsions, and appearing to swim quite happily - went back into the tank. This morning it was dead. Fished it out and changed half the water.

 

[Curiosity101]

Did you read my post abih?