Glow in the dark fish in the U.S.A. yay!

[noop]

the fish we keep are only alive cos they've been bred for us to keep

we benefit by having something pretty and relaxing to look at, they benefit by living. they all live their lives in artificial environments, ranging from stark or unnatural tanks to ones where care has been taken to make the fish feel truly at home

i can't see how changing a fish's colour is going to cause it any more stress than putting say blue gravel on the bottom of your tank

 

[Cali]

Natural? NATURAL!?!?! Tell me if you think this looks natural. This is another color of glofish they are planning to bring out after the red. This is no longer for the good of science and finding pollutants. This is just profit now!

THE PIC!!!!!!!

They don't look so appealing... Poor fish.

 

[basenjib123]

I don't want to keep them..but I bet they look pretty cool!

 

[bgraber]

Ok, even hebal medicine is trying to undo nature.. oing totally with the flo would be riding out whatever was happening naturally and not trying to combat it in any way. We all know that this is not very logical and we have been looking for remedies to nature for thousands of years.
"I have a strong belief that when you take a wild animal from its habitat, undertake to breed it or just keep it in your home, you have also taken on the moral responsibilty to look after its welfare and wellbeing. Without this fundemental moral responsibility, keeping any animal captive is barbaric and reprehensible. I think subjecting these animals to this kind of treatment is a breach of this responsibilty and starts us on a very slippy slope where the value of life itself becomes a cheap commercial interest rather than a fundemental right for every creature."
Ken, Do I understand that you are a vegetarian? How about people that raise livestock for food? Farmers, hunters etc. How about plants? They are indeed alive. Do they have feelings? i dont think so. Souls who knows. We cut them down and ingest them. Basically I'm just trying to say this methodology is not very logical in practice. As sad as it may be, some things Have to suffer a bit for the common good. This is the way it has always been and always will be. I keep chickens cooped to provide eggs and food for my family. Barbaric? Possibly.. reprehensible? That may be your opinion. Again, not very realistic if you ask me. you must be infuriated by half of the goings-on in the world today. That can't be healthy. i'm not saying your wrong, I just can't justify some of your ideals.

 

[Auratus]

the fish we keep are only alive cos they've been bred for us to keep

WHAT? what about all of the fish taken out of the wild everyday to be sold in petshops? You don't honestly think all of those fish are captive bred do you? Scubadivers take fish from the reef every day! Marine fish are hard to breed and you wouldn't see clownfish in every store if they were all bred in captivity.

They are not bred for our pleasure. They were bred to make more fish and live in the wild. We took them out and domesticated them. Saying they wouldn't be alive if it weren't for us is like saying there are no tropical fish in hawaii. They must be able to live. And the only reason they wouldn't is because we have mutated and inbred them so much that they would be hunted out by preditors in 2 seconds. Either because they can only hobble around and can't swim because we breed unusually large fins or we breed their colors so bright that a preditor could spot it like that!

Why do you think the danios only come in grey and silver? Because if there was a whole school of those fish and one glofish or gold danio, what fish do you think the preditor is going to see?

As for the vegitarian thing... animals are for eating but humans are glutons. We eat more than we need to and the animals are poorly treated before they die for our greedy needs. Ya we have cows, chicken, fish, pork... but that's not good enough for you people, you have to go out and shoot deer because it's better than cow. And you have to shoot quail and stuff. Isn't all that meat in the store good enough for you? As for plants, yes they can probably feel it. But we wont know because we can't hear them. That is some people's logic when it comes to fish and reptiles. Because they can not show pain as much as say a dog, people think it is okay to fish for them. Ya the fish hurt, but people still do it!

 

[noop]

sorry auratus - i'm now aware that some fish are taken from the wild. coincidentally enough right after i wrote that post i found myself reading about the poor old clownfish which is now disappearing in certain places thanks to increased demand from all those dumb parents who bought them for their spoilt finding nemo-loving kids

but i'd still guess a vast majority of the fish are bred purely for use as pets. anyone got any idea what kind of proportion of lfs fish are taken from the wild?

 

[Sinuhe]

You make some good points there. Most herbal tea remedies available commercially are for non-serious/life threatening health problems and to be honest, I'd recommend seeing a doctor for that. However, the use of some teas/herbs (all legal I might add) can help prevent many illness'.

One of the reasons a lot of research has not been done by modern or "western" medicine is because herbal remedies takes away from their pocket books, plain and simple. Everything is a business.

I disagree that western medicine is the best way to keep people healthy. Nor do I believe herbal remedies are the absolute way to go. Both have their positves and their negatives. Prevention is the key, which is something that isn't well emphasised in modern medicine as the majority of it is based on a person already being ill and coming in for medications, etc.

I doubt that the reason for little research is because modern medicine is afraid of losing their business. Most researchers themselves benefit very little economically from the work they do, and with a lot of research, nobody gets rich. There are studies sponsored by medicine companies, yes, but not all are. Researchers often have trouble finding enough money to complete a study in the first place, it's expensive. I don't claim modern medicine is always right, but people do try to base their decisions on something that's been proven by research when possible. Things change all the time, new information is found out, and old ways are forgotten when it turns out they weren't good, or there is something better to replace it with.

Can you point me to some objective information about the benefits of herbal tea remedies? I agree that a healthy diet is often good at preventing illness, but after people get sick, it's a bit different. I strongly suspect it actually cures anything. Also, modern medicine today puts more and more effort into preventing disease in the first place. Doctors tell people to lose weight, exercise more, eat a healthy diet, not smoke, and so on. But, in reality, most of their time is spent treating illness. The problem is a lot of people don't care about their health before it's too late!

 

[Opcn]

Natural? NATURAL!?!?! Tell me if you think this looks natural. This is another color of glofish they are planning to bring out after the red. This is no longer for the good of science and finding pollutants. This is just profit now!

THE PIC!!!!!!!

First off the green rice fish were created before the pink zebra danios and secondly the pink zebra danios were bred b4 they decided to put anything up for sale.
Secondly If we selectively breed a fish in a fish tank (an unnatural place for fish to "get it on") then we are guiding the fish species for it's own good (making it prety to make people whant to own it and keep it alive) we do that with flowers aswell. Once we have taken a step in the direction of UN-Natural selection any boundary set is arbitrarily set. A fish breeding in a glass tank (or a flower growing in a polymer (plastic) pot shaped area) in a world without un natural humans is actualy less likely that a fish accidentaly getting a gene from a jellyfish or piece of coral(perhaps in a storm)(or being carried by a virus(mabey a member of the herpes symplex(yes fish can get it just ask the koi breeders of japan)carying it over)) and given enough time some breader may one day breed a guppy that glows under a black light with out the use of needles or high powered microscopes.

and finaly If not for how they got the gene flourescent fish would be emensly popular and the gene would lead the species to great sucess as a pet because it is infact capable of making the fish very desireable to humans and there for more sutable for a symbiotic relationship with them (albiet an unatural one)in wich the fish entertains and the human provides temperature stability, food, and a place to live.

Opcn

P.S. ken while takeing care of a fish is definitly a responseability when you take a fish in to your home (no sane person would debate against that POV) the goal of most ppl is to have an attractive fish in there home (otherwise we would just go into a lfs and buy any fish) or one that performes a function (like otto's or placos to clean off the alge)

 

[Opcn]

Sinuhe

They say you can either you can make foods your medicins or make medicens your food.

(eat right or take lots of meds)

 

[Cian McLiam]

Ken, Do I understand that you are a vegetarian? How about people that raise livestock for food? Farmers, hunters etc. How about plants? They are indeed alive. Do they have feelings? i dont think so. Souls who knows. We cut them down and ingest them. Basically I'm just trying to say this methodology is not very logical in practice.

Ok, a little exercise. Run your tounge along the top row of your teeth, feel anything? The two sharp teeth on either side are for ripping tissue. Be it animal or vegetable, that is what they are for. There is a thing called the food pyramid, all animals are prey and predator, we have managed to jump the queue through our own technology, but we are basically the same as every other animal. I dont regualrly see farmers kicking their cows, I buy free range eggs, but basically humans were never designed to be herbivores, we have the function and the need to digest other living creatures. Now we start another argument but I believe this.

As sad as it may be, some things Have to suffer a bit for the common good.

Anyone who uses this argument for glofish in the aquarium hobby has exposed themselves for what they really are.

and finaly If not for how they got the gene flourescent fish would be emensly popular and the gene would lead the species to great sucess as a pet because it is infact capable of making the fish very desireable to humans and there for more sutable for a symbiotic relationship with them (albiet an unatural one)in wich the fish entertains and the human provides temperature stability, food, and a place to live.

Opcn

P.S. ken while takeing care of a fish is definitly a responseability when you take a fish in to your home (no sane person would debate against that POV) the goal of most ppl is to have an attractive fish in there home (otherwise we would just go into a lfs and buy any fish) or one that performes a function (like otto's or placos to clean off the alge)

Again you sem to believe fish are our playthings, that exist for our 'pleasure'
Most fishkeepers I know keep fish because they are fascinated by their colours yes, but more importantly fascinated by their habits and behaviours. their own natural selves. Sure people might get into the hobby because they look attractive but if thats the only reason to keep fish, I doubt that their welfare is of any priority other than having something 'nice to look at' which can be replaced when it dies.

I will just reapeat what I said earlier:

I agree everyone is entitled to their own opinion, the fish concerned however seems to be exempt from this, as is usually the case with humans. We somehow have come to believe that every other living thing on the planet has no right to its own dignity no matter how small or large. We have become so egotistical to believe that modifying millions of years of evolution in one stroke is not only a possibilty for us, but somehow our right, even if it is for superficial and commercial purposes like this. Fish have evolved many striking colours and patterns for themselves, this must be for a specific purpose as fish that live in zero visibility have not. I think colouring a fish genetically or mechanically is a perversion of this.
Besides, it takes all the wonder out of it. Compare the two cases,a fish that has evolved over millions of years such beautiful colours is a thing of wonder that should be respected as such and admired, these fish are coloured by artificial means for no other purpose except money grabbing, probably in a greasy back alley in Singapore. Where is the wonder and fascination in that?

Ken

 

[Opcn]

Again you sem to believe fish are our playthings, that exist for our 'pleasure'
Most fishkeepers I know keep fish because they are fascinated by their colours yes, but more importantly fascinated by their habits and behaviours. their own natural selves. Sure people might get into the hobby because they look attractive but if thats the only reason to keep fish, I doubt that their welfare is of any priority other than having something 'nice to look at' which can be replaced when it dies.

Very true ken I usually consider attractiveness to extend beyony phisical paramiters. Just a few weeks ago I broke up with an emensly physicaly attractive female because she wasn't smart enough to keep me attracted to her.

Bottom line I should have been more specific.

Opcn

 

[Cian McLiam]

Regarding the arguments about human medicine, I dont think these fish were created to advance the study of any disease, on the manufacturers own website they say that they are used to detect pollutants in water, which they say they can already test for. Lets not equate these fish with a cure for cancer.
In a more general sense, yes I agree that western medicine is fighting the battle from the wrong direction. This is because most people are happier to be unaware that perhaps it is their very lifestyle that is causing the diseases in the first place. I think this is because most wetern people are afraid to look into anything deeper than their cornflakes bowl in the morning.

Ken

 

[Opcn]

Am I the only person in the world who struggles to find one single attractive attribute in Silver Dollars?

Make you a deal ken you get a few silver dollars and I won't get any glofish.

any my cornflake bowl is realy deep okay

For years western medicin has been treating the symptoms and not the causes (Like coffie)
oh and lets see how long ken and I can bat this around

Opcn

 

[Cian McLiam]

Ok! if the buggers dont eat my plants I might even like em a bit.

Ken

 

[Opcn]

The coment I had origionaly posted was more than a little bit to direct and hostile and i regret having posted it. so I edited it away and am apologizing to those who I have offended. I'm sorry comments such as the one I posted here should have been adressed in a one on one maner and not aired publicly.

Opcn