Getting Back Into Marine

[KittyKat]

feeding wise just drop a prawn or flakes in every few days, they mainly eat algae anyways

Given that I do travel relatively often for 2-3 weeks at a time, would these numbers be able to survive without food for that long, if I were to feed them well on a regular basis? Or would you recommend lower numbers?

electrics have a bad reputation of knocking things over and killing snails

Which is why I never kept snails at the same time as my blue-legged.. which snail-friendly hermit species can you recommend, out of the ones which do not get large?

 

[fishy55599]

they should be able to survive, as you are feed them regular, when your away they will just be fine eating alage and other stuff in your tank

with the nass snails, i would recomend letting the sand bed mature for a couple of weeks.

blue legs and red leg hermits are perfect they stay small and dont attack for shells as long as there are some spare shells in the tank, i chose blue legs personally

btw dont add them all at the same time, add them slowly

 

[Donya]

...I foresee the possibility for me to turn into a horrendous pain in the behind in this thread, but I'm going to charge forward with another text wall anyway for the moment. Maybe it's just that I'm cranky this afternoon because I have to wait for the lunch crowd to disperse before I can get coffee lol. Hopefully this one won't come across as too cranky, but I won't know for sure until after I've gotten coffee.

a rough rule of thumb is one member of CUC per USG

This is a really good way to create starvation conditions for animals and CUC attrition. Tanks can be dedicated to large populations of animals that can be CUC, but a hermitarium or gastropod tank that requires extensive target feeding to maintain something like 20 Turbos in a 20gal tank is not really utilizing those animals as CUC.

I know people go to the animals-per-gallon rout because they think it's an easy way for beginners to start out, but it's really a very bad way to stock animals in a new tank, particularly with a new hobbyist who may not know what to expect from the animals yet. Many people who stock this way also develop the impression that CUC attrition is a normal/acceptable/unavoidable thing, when it can be more-or-less completely avoided when things are taken more slowly. To stock safely for both the tank as a whole and the well-being of the individual animals, it's far better to aim for what is clearly too few (assuming it's not a species where aggression is inversely proportional to population - those exist, but not as far as I'm aware in the CUC world) and build up more after observing the impact the animals have on their environment and each other.

electric blue hermits would be my recommendation, much more interesting that standard hermits

If you mean Calcinus elegans, these also have the potentially to become quite large. If one of these went in a 15gal, that could easily occupy the entire crustacean side of the CUC unless the tank is to become a hermitarium with target feeding. I don't know what the OPs goals are beyond CUC animals, but putting multiple or even one C. elegans in a tank that size will make it very hard to add any sessile animals and/or corals long term. Sessile animals would be possible lunch and corals would be trodden on quite a lot as the hermits grow due to the small tank footprint.

cerith are good as glass cleaners.

Erm...all of my experience with this general family of snails is that they spend most of the time in the substrate when sufficient food is present. Climbing on vertical surfaces (which they are poorly cut out for; they tend to go straight up well but not sideways or down) is either a sign that there are some really top-notch munchies to be had on the glass or that the sand bed isn't offering much food. Ditto for spending lots of time on rocks. I have never seen well-fed Ceriths spend more than brief periods of time on rocks/glass, the exceptions being in cases involving extraordinary munchies.

 

[fishy55599]

cerith are good as glass cleaners.

Erm...all of my experience with this general family of snails is that they spend most of the time in the substrate when sufficient food is present. Climbing on vertical surfaces (which they are poorly cut out for; they tend to go straight up well but not sideways or down) is either a sign that there are some really top-notch munchies to be had on the glass or that the sand bed isn't offering much food. Ditto for spending lots of time on rocks. I have never seen well-fed Ceriths spend more than brief periods of time on rocks/glass, the exceptions being in cases involving extraordinary munchies.

oh i really didnt know that, i was told they were good for the glass... what are a good snail for the glass?

 

[Donya]

oh i really didnt know that, i was told they were good for the glass... what are a good snail for the glass?

Pretty much Turbinids and Trochiids. Turbo, Astrea/Lithopoma, Cittarium pica, Trochus, etc., of course with suitability* and hardiness varying by species.

*EDIT: meant temperature tolerance really.

 

[KittyKat]

with the nass snails, i would recomend letting the sand bed mature for a couple of weeks.

The sand bed is about 4 years old now

blue legs and red leg hermits are perfect they stay small and dont attack for shells as long as there are some spare shells in the tank, i chose blue legs personally

Hun, quite a few of the red-legged species grow far too large for my aquarium. For example, Dardanus megistos can reach 15-20 cm.. so it might be a good idea to mention the specific species

...I foresee the possibility for me to turn into a horrendous pain in the behind in this thread, but I'm going to charge forward with another text wall anyway for the moment.

I foresee the possibility of me abusing you for your brain Please do be a horrendous pain in the behind!

I don't know what the OPs goals are beyond CUC animals, but putting multiple or even one C. elegans in a tank that size will make it very hard to add any sessile animals and/or corals long term.

Mainly coral, with a small, open sandy area at the front and rockwork all the way up the back till it sticks out of the water at the top. I may consider adding another small fish in a year or so, but I am in no hurry over it.

cerith are good as glass cleaners.

Erm...all of my experience with this general family of snails is that they spend most of the time in the substrate when sufficient food is present. Climbing on vertical surfaces (which they are poorly cut out for; they tend to go straight up well but not sideways or down) is either a sign that there are some really top-notch munchies to be had on the glass or that the sand bed isn't offering much food. Ditto for spending lots of time on rocks. I have never seen well-fed Ceriths spend more than brief periods of time on rocks/glass, the exceptions being in cases involving extraordinary munchies.

At the moment, I don't think my sand had *any* worthy munchies, so it doesn't sound like these snails are a worth option.

oh i really didnt know that, i was told they were good for the glass... what are a good snail for the glass?

Pretty much Turbinids and Trochiids. Turbo, Astrea/Lithopoma, Cittarium pica, Trochus, etc., of course with suitability* and hardiness varying by species.

*EDIT: meant temperature tolerance really.

Which species or groups can you recommend for their hardiness?

 

[fishy55599]

blue legs and red leg hermits are perfect they stay small and dont attack for shells as long as there are some spare shells in the tank, i chose blue legs personally

Hun, quite a few of the red-legged species grow far too large for my aquarium. For example, Dardanus megistos can reach 15-20 cm.. so it might be a good idea to mention the specific species

Which species or groups can you recommend for their hardiness?

sorry, i am no good with specific species. but blue legs are a good choice i would say

 

[Donya]

For example, Dardanus megistos can reach 15-20 cm..

Now those are some evil hermits I'm still figuring out how to keep a tank tamper-proof from them.

Mainly coral, with a small, open sandy area at the front and rockwork all the way up the back till it sticks out of the water at the top. I may consider adding another small fish in a year or so, but I am in no hurry over it.

I would definitely recommend sticking to small hermits then. My D. megistos even went out of their way to literally sit in/on patches of soft corals like it was a chair before I moved the corals elsewhere. Other large hermits I've seen haven't been quite that annoying about corals, but the trample factor still exists. Very small species like Clibanarius digueti, C. erythropus, and C. tricolor are probably the safest bets since they don't tend to bother soft corals and won't injure hard corals either since they are light. For larger species, heavy shells + pointy feet can result in accidental injuries to the coral unless it packs enough punch to keep crustaceans away.

At the moment, I don't think my sand had *any* worthy munchies, so it doesn't sound like these snails are a worth option.

Good to wait on something like Ceriths then. If your sand suddenly turns hairy-looking or gets covered in diatoms and algae, then those are some good munchies for snails like Ceriths.

Which species or groups can you recommend for their hardiness?

Turbo fluctuosus is my go-to species for hardiness, adaptability in what they're willing to eat, and also safety from many CUC crustaceans like small to medium hermits. Many other species in the Turbo genus are similarly hardy and adaptable. I'm still puzzled by Andy's post with regards to those, since T. fluctuosus has seemed to me to be about as bomb-proof as snails can get and will also eagerly eat nori and other dried seaweeds if food supplies in the tank run low.

Some of the Trochiids are also good CUC members, but the names for the ones I've had that have shown the most CUC potential are escaping me right now. Cittarium pica is technically a Trochiid, but it gets absolutely HUGE, so probably not so good for a small tank. There is another striped species though in particular that doesn't have the bulldozing capacity of T. fluctuosus since it's a bit smaller, but it has seemed to be just as active and hardy. I'll have to dig up the ID I had for that one and get back to you. I don't think they're all that common unfortunately, although the availability may differ by region.

 

[fishy55599]

cerith are a good idea for me then

 

[KittyKat]

Mainly coral, with a small, open sandy area at the front and rockwork all the way up the back till it sticks out of the water at the top. I may consider adding another small fish in a year or so, but I am in no hurry over it.

I would definitely recommend sticking to small hermits then. My D. megistos even went out of their way to literally sit in/on patches of soft corals like it was a chair before I moved the corals elsewhere. Other large hermits I've seen haven't been quite that annoying about corals, but the trample factor still exists. Very small species like Clibanarius digueti, C. erythropus, and C. tricolor are probably the safest bets since they don't tend to bother soft corals and won't injure hard corals either since they are light. For larger species, heavy shells + pointy feet can result in accidental injuries to the coral unless it packs enough punch to keep crustaceans away.

Do you think a single Clibanarius digueti and a C. tricolor would leave each other be, in a tank that size? I have about half a dozen spare shells in there, at the moment.

Which species or groups can you recommend for their hardiness?

Turbo fluctuosus is my go-to species for hardiness, adaptability in what they're willing to eat, and also safety from many CUC crustaceans like small to medium hermits. Many other species in the Turbo genus are similarly hardy and adaptable. I'm still puzzled by Andy's post with regards to those, since T. fluctuosus has seemed to me to be about as bomb-proof as snails can get and will also eagerly eat nori and other dried seaweeds if food supplies in the tank run low.

Some of the Trochiids are also good CUC members, but the names for the ones I've had that have shown the most CUC potential are escaping me right now. Cittarium pica is technically a Trochiid, but it gets absolutely HUGE, so probably not so good for a small tank. There is another striped species though in particular that doesn't have the bulldozing capacity of T. fluctuosus since it's a bit smaller, but it has seemed to be just as active and hardy. I'll have to dig up the ID I had for that one and get back to you. I don't think they're all that common unfortunately, although the availability may differ by region.

Thanks, that is very useful.. something to think about. I quite like the idea of 1-2 Turbo fluctuosus, and one each of Clibanarius digueti and a C. tricolor.. not exactly a balanced CUC, but I would rather have some algae and spare munchies in there, than hungry animals, and I rather like hermits.

 

[@ombomb]

I don't know what the OPs goals are beyond CUC animals, but putting multiple or even one C. elegans in a tank that size will make it very hard to add any sessile animals and/or corals long term. Sessile animals would be possible lunch and corals would be trodden on quite a lot as the hermits grow due to the small tank footprint.

fair point wasn't taking the tank size into account

 

[Donya]

Do you think a single Clibanarius digueti and a C. tricolor would leave each other be, in a tank that size? I have about half a dozen spare shells in there, at the moment.

It's always absolutely safest to pick one or the other and stick with it, but small Clibanarius species are the safest to mix since they have sufficiently similar behavior and are pretty peaceful when not stressed by other factors. This is good, because it's pretty hard to tell some of the small brown species apart from each other as juveniles!

I'm not sure one of each is the best way to mix. I had a lone C. tircolor in with a bunch of C. digueti for a long time. The lone C. tricolor wanted to follow the C. diguetis around but was sort of kept to the outside of the group. In mixed species environments they definitely like a same-species buddy or two to forage with. As soon as I introduced another C. tricolor, the group sorted itself by species and formed two distinct foraging parties (sometimes three since there were quite a few C. digueti hermits). The original C. tricolor also had a sudden growth spurt and general increase in activity after that, so it may be that always being on the outside had affected its development. The only aggression that occured was between the newer/larger C. tricolor and largest C. digeueti. They'd go up to each other and do arm flexes like body builders showing off, but it never progressed beyond that. All in all it seemed a safe combination.

In a same-species environment in a small tank, they may not form groups and will often just spread out around the tank. If you only want to start with two hermits, I would recommend two of the same and then maybe two of the other if it looks like the tank will support it, of course keeping a close eye on it for a couple weeks following the addition. The main thing to avoid is mixing the small Clibanarius species with any of the other commonly available genera (e.g. Paguristes and Calcinus species) in a tank of this size. Although there are some instances of success, when it goes south it can do so fast and brutally.

Thanks, that is very useful.. something to think about. I quite like the idea of 1-2 Turbo fluctuosus, and one each of Clibanarius digueti and a C. tricolor.. not exactly a balanced CUC, but I would rather have some algae and spare munchies in there, than hungry animals, and I rather like hermits.

Balance in the sense of a range of animals is probably something that's more an issue in large tanks that have more diverse micro-habitats that need attention. True need for animal diversity to keep things running smoothly is something I've only started to see in my 55gal; it has been totally non-existant in all of my smaller tanks. Several years ago I had a 12gal with a few Turbos and exactly one Calcinus seurati and that was plenty (no Nassarius or Ceriths). I would say if it works, it's balanced!

 

[KittyKat]

I have since started looking for crabs and have only had any luck finding C. tircolor, out of the two, so I think I will be going for those again. I have also enquired with the seller, if they have T. fluctuosus too.. but am still waiting on a reply.

 

[KittyKat]

A couple of C. tircolor are now on order.. couldn't resist a feather worm as well (I used to have some beautiful green and magenta ones, a few years ago). Thank you for the help, especially Donya!

 

[ALW]

I have since started looking for crabs and have only had any luck finding C. tircolor, out of the two, so I think I will be going for those again. I have also enquired with the seller, if they have T. fluctuosus too.. but am still waiting on a reply.

Turbo fluctuosus are to be avoided they are from Mexico and are sub-tropical animals and dont often live long at reef temperatures. Go for Turbo snails from the Indo-pacific